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Topic: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors? (Read 4715 times) |
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sector-9
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Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« on: Feb 17th, 2007, 8:59pm » |
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Next week Maplin will have an offer on their small ultrasonic cleaning tank and I'm considering buying one so that I can try cleaning my diesel injectors.
My question is, has anyone tried this and does it make a noticeable difference? As some will know, I have the early (115PS) diesel and I'm unimpressed by it's lack of power (struggles to tow a small caravan), noise and poor economy (it never betters about 30mpg, even on the motorway). Although it's only covered 85K miles I'm beginning to wonder if it would benefit from the cleaning process. Also, although the cleaning tank is designed for plain water, that's probably a bad idea to put the injectors in so can I use meths, petrol or diesel instead without ******* up the tank? Finally, what parts will I need to buy to remove and refit the injectors, such as sealing washers and tools?
One last question - what's the best grade of oil to use in the TD? When I bought it I used 15W-40 and back in November I used 10W-40 which seemed to make it a bit more responsive but at the expense of economy (it used to get about 38mpg on motorway with 15W-40 despite not feeling as lively).
Darren
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #1 on: Feb 17th, 2007, 11:54pm » |
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darren, i have one of those cleaners from maplin, it works quite well, and i have cleaned my diesel injectors in it using water and a squirt of washing up liquid, then left em to dry out for a few days. however, these were injectors that were second hand i'd bought to replace mine, so, i dont know what difference the cleaning made, but, even though they'd only covered about 1000 miles a fair bit of crap did come out.
i then cleaned the old injectors with it, gunk oozed out...
the main part you need for the job is a 28mm window socket available on ebay or you can borrow mine, a torx bit to remove the 4 cam cover bolts, torque wrench. you should put new copper sealing washers on the injectors, most independant spares shops sell them loose in various sizes.
its a pretty simple job, the only real problem i had was removing the old injectors, over the years they seemed to have rusted in, but a bit of wd40 and patience worked.
as for oil, at the mo im using 10w40 semi synthetic but might try fully synthetic soon.
mines the same engine as yours, pretty sluggish, but the change of injectors has made a world of difference to noise and smoothness. what also helps is to clean the vacuum pipe from the top of the fuel pump to the underside of the turbo (i think), im also pretty certain my turbo isnt working, although the car pulls ok and is smooth, theres no noticeable difference when i hit 2200+ revs when you're supposed to notice it.
hope this helps, pm me for any more....
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sector-9
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #2 on: Feb 18th, 2007, 11:55am » |
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Thanks for the info, sounds like my engine may not be out of spec then and may benefit from injector cleaning. Not sure I'd want to be without the car for a few days though!
Out of interest, how much do the windowed sockets cost? I appreciate your offer but given the weight of it I expect postage both ways would probably be half the cost and I imagine the tool will fit other cars using the Bosch injectors so it'd be a worthwhile investment.
I was going to put some 20W-50 oil in as thicker oils do quieten the engine (and it is specced for this engine down to -10) but I fear it'd do horrible things to the economy, or maybe I'm just paranoid. Won't know until I try it I suppose and at least it's cheap!
Darren
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #3 on: Feb 18th, 2007, 12:26pm » |
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theres normally 5 or 6 advertised on ebay for around 7 quid, but, they normally charge stupid postage of a tenner, cant remember the company name on ebay but i found one for 6 quid with 3 quid postage.
you could clean the injectors, connect em up but not fit em then turn the key a few times to pump diesel through em to expel any water.
the thicker oil might 'come into its own' in the summer when temperatures are hotter.
is you're engine really that noisy?
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sector-9
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #4 on: Feb 18th, 2007, 2:32pm » |
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It's noisier than I would like, though every now and then (usually when started from cold after several days out of use) it can be quiet. The main problem is lack of power and fuel consumption, after all, I can turn the radio up to mask the din!
I thought being a 2.5TD it'd have bags of power for towing, and whilst I don't expect it to acheive the 45mpg the book gives for driving at 56mph, I thought it'd be able to get 40mpg at 60mph (easily maintained on the motorway with cruise control), especially as mazzy_j gets those types of figures and his car has much more miles on it. Having said that, my car is what? 12yr old and only just got to 85K so that's only 7K miles/year - perhaps it's had a life of stop-start journeys and more in need of injector cleaning than one averaging 12-14K/year?
Basically it boils down to this: An early Disco TDi would be a better tow car, can seat seven (or at least I'd buy a 7 seater), is cheaper to insure and in my case, probably little difference in fuel consumption being as they can manage 30+mpg and that's all mine is doing.
Turning back to the problem mine has, it previously did 37-38mpg on the motorway with 15W-40 oil, but struggled towing a 900Kg caravan in fifth gear on the motorway (the cruise control kept dropping out every time there was a slight incline). I want to borrow my parents' caravan which is around 1400Kg but seriously doubt I'd ever get beyond fourth gear which obviously hammers the economy over 400 miles.  Since going to 10W-40 (which is what mazzy_j uses) it seems more responsive and I haven't tried towing a caravan again, but now economy is down to 30-31mpg, hardly improving on the motorway, so I doubt it'd tow better than it did previously.
I think my turbo does work, you can feel a difference at about 2200rpm, but it's not massive compared to other TDs I've driven (Ford, Rover, Toyota, etc.) and in any case, 2200rpm is illegal when towing in fifth gear and doing 60mph in fifth is around 2000rpm at most, during which the turbo is having little effect and I'm relying on the native torque (or lack of) of the engine to keep a steady speed.
Darren
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Simmo
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #5 on: Feb 18th, 2007, 3:06pm » |
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Darren, Looks like you can get a socket for under £10.Here  But the postage is nearly as much. This is a Laser tools item Code 3299 and should be available from a motor factors in your area www.lasertools.co.uk. Most factors deal with Sealey too.This link is via a mail order firm which Mike F used recently and got good service. Here.
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Matt
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #6 on: Feb 18th, 2007, 5:15pm » |
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hey,
this ultra sonic cleaner sounds intresting, ive found 2 on maplin, i assume it's the £80 i should be looking at?
any body had experience on cleaning petrol injectors?
matt
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scorpio_man
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #7 on: Feb 18th, 2007, 5:29pm » |
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hi matt
they've also got a smaller one for £40. about cd sized, so should do it as well.
hth
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Gasguzzla
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #8 on: Feb 18th, 2007, 6:41pm » |
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I got my injector socket here;
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160049417499
Try contacting seller if it's not current and don't use mytoolsdirect.com - I had to neg him last week.
Btw I get quite a kick from the turbo and around 40 mpg on a run but really heavy vibration at 1500 rpm - not nice.
Was thinking the injectors so will watch this with interest......
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #9 on: Feb 18th, 2007, 11:11pm » |
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the cleaner i bought from maplins just before xmas was 25 quid, its a mains one, has a tray, plastic holder for watches and one for cd's. similar can be had for around the same price on ebay.
personally i wouldnt spend 80 quid on one unless its type specific i.e. cleaning surgical stuff, mines handy for jewellery, cd's, ink cartridges etc, oooh, and small engine parts....
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #10 on: Feb 18th, 2007, 11:25pm » |
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that one looks the same as mine gas.
i recently did a trip from s.e. london to oxford and back with the new injectors, bearing in mind it took 2 hours to get through london, the same on way back, i averaged 38mpg, which im quite pleased with....
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martin_rowe
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #11 on: Feb 19th, 2007, 8:52am » |
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UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU ALLOW WATER TO GET INTO DIESEL INJECTORS. in fact just handling the internals of a dismantled injector with 'dry' hands usually causes enough corrosion to damage the internals. in fact you are better using a specialist injector cleaner, the best I have used is the 'FORTE' diesel injector cleaner. or remove them & get them properly cleaned & re set by a 'Diesel' shop.
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #12 on: Feb 19th, 2007, 12:26pm » |
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martin, you cant dismantle these or get them re set, they're sealed units. as for water getting in, well it will anyway under normal use through moisture in the atmosphere, hence some diesels having a water warning light telling you its time to drain the filter.....
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martin_rowe
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #13 on: Feb 19th, 2007, 2:15pm » |
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under 'normal' use no water / condensation can get in to an injector, all diesels have systems in place to remove it from the fuel.
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #14 on: Feb 19th, 2007, 11:05pm » |
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martin, how does that work? i've only had a couple of diesels before, but the both had some sort of sensor telling you to drain the filter bowl, surely over the years some of that water will get through?
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martin_rowe
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #15 on: Feb 20th, 2007, 8:48am » |
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the sensor is just a warning, diesels used to have a sedimentor / aglomerator unit (usually called a pre filter)which allowed larger items of sediment (dirt) and water to settle out (oil floats on water) on later vehicles its all taken care of by the fuel filters (we now have better fuel uality) but many of which still have the facility to 'drain' off any water / condensation that collects at the bottom. thats why it is imperitive that diesel fuel filters are changed regularly.
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Gasguzzla
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #16 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 1:40am » |
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Have to say my diesel injectors do dismantle...
If you use a 22mm spanner on the top and try to undo the injector the middle unscrews. Thats why I bought an injector socket.
Inside is a spring and two washer/shim thingies....
After putting it back together it leaked diesel - so I used that white plumbers tape stuff on the threads.
Then the blanking on the rear injectors unused fuel return fell off so fuel leaked out of there. I put a self tapping screw in that.
Have I made a major fau pas or two.......?
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #17 on: Feb 21st, 2007, 11:27am » |
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superb gas 
interesting about the water, so, clean em with the ultrasonic cleaner, but not with soapy water like i did  , maybe meths or petrol.....
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mazzy_j
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #18 on: Feb 22nd, 2007, 9:41am » |
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tali after hearing how quiet (!?) your car is compared to mine i could probably do with either renewing or having my injectors refurbished considering its milage.
but seeing as it pulls ok and im still gettin around 42mpg on the motorway (really need to turn back down the on-boost fueling at somepoint because cars following me tend to disappear when i floor it ) i'm not sure it'll be worth my while spending £££ when its working fine. running it on cooking oil you're supposed to loose about 5-10% in power and economy, although i've only ever run my car purely on diesel driving it home when i bought it and 2 weeks in the summer driving around europe so i cant be 100% certain of this!
it might be worth my while buying an injector socket and giving the injectors a good dousing in carb cleaner and simply see what condition they're in.
Phil, you say you can't feel the turbo kicking in, is that in normal driving or foot to the floor? maybe at the next we're both at we could go out for a quick drive to see if they drive differently...
Matt
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LiverpaulH
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Re: Ultrasonic cleaning diesel injectors?
« Reply #19 on: Feb 22nd, 2007, 10:02am » |
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Darren, your diesel seems to be very like the old diesel I used to have, which was very noisy and lethargic and never managed more than 30mpg on average. Mine had been owned for a few years by an old gent who only used it short hop, and over the time I had it, it continually improved as I floored it everywhere, but never became that good. Even so I'm still surprised that you struggle with towing such a small caravan, I had no problem maintaining 60 pulling a granada estate on a car trailer, although as a matter of course when towing with that car I kept to 4th gear, and that may be the difference.
The new one I replaced it with is quicker and has better fuel economy and has pulled about 3ton without struggling (currently 110,000miles). On yours doing the injectors should help, but you may end up ultimately doing what I did and sourcing a better one!
Paul
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