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Topic: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting (FAO (Read 10179 times) |
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markzetec
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BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting (FAO
« on: Jul 25th, 2011, 9:45am » |
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Hi guys
I am putting a BOB engine into a capri with a manual box
I think i have figured it all out including the fooling of the ecu required as it wont have the auto box on it but its better to check with people who have done it before i go ahead and blow my ecu up lol
scorpio_man i think im right in saying that you know about the PATS
Matt I'm sure you know about the box trick
If you could both pm me if you prefer to give me the answers i need that would be most helpful
Many thanks
Mark
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Dave2302
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #2 on: Jul 26th, 2011, 10:30am » |
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Having done all this at length, with my 24V 4X4 BOB Puma, there is NO BYPASS for PATS on an EECV management system.
It has to be wired up in a simplified fashion, as it was in the donor car, and unless it is a really late one it will have a separate PATS Module, which you need, plus it's associated wiring, diagnostic plug, key reader and the right key, and the LED from the dash.
When you have the correct parts, it is quite easy to wire up, as you only need to connect the basic wires, and don't need all the ones that dissapear to CCM, Alarm etc
Cheers Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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markzetec
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #3 on: Aug 2nd, 2011, 7:58pm » |
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Thanks for the reply's guys.
Matt that just confirms what i thought so thats all good i was on the right track
Dave im still not convinced it can't be done ...................
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Roundozo
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #4 on: Aug 3rd, 2011, 9:55am » |
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Just thought I’d pipe up etc as I’ve been there, done that.
I've got a 1978 MK4 Cortina with the BOB engine in. I had the wiring loom but no key so would have been unable to get around the PATS system, apparently. I am using a strengthened type 9 box so have a manual as well. To get around the PATS we used the wiring loom from the BOA as they are interchangeable. I have the BOA mass air flow sensor onto the BOB engine so that I can fit the induction kit etc. I don’t have the exhaust sensors (straight through pipes) and have also got rid of other unnecessary sensors and cables. I did get help with it as it’s a pig of a job but well worth it. Good power but with a bit more reliability than my old 2.8 cologne. Good luck with the build!
George.
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Highlander
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #5 on: Aug 3rd, 2011, 10:19am » |
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on Aug 2nd, 2011, 7:58pm, markzetec wrote:| Dave im still not convinced it can't be done ................... |
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I know Dave has looked into this in great depth, as have many others over the years and although I don't know too much about it I do know it can't be done via simple means, bypassing wires etc
I think the last I heard on the subject it was suspected that the ECU required reprogramming and that the BOB ECU would be a lot harder to do compared to other ECU's?
So although there may well be someone out there somewhere who can do it, no one has found them yet even those with very good contacts within the ECU programming areas.
If Dave couldn't find a way to do it I'd say it can't be done.
But never say never 
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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Roundozo
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #6 on: Aug 3rd, 2011, 1:45pm » |
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I cant remember if we used the BOA or the BOB ECU actually. Anyhow its all in the car and running well. If you do need some help or need to get some wiring looms have a look out for "do it sideways" on the buysellcortina forum. He did mine for me and has done many, many more that have all be successful.
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Highlander
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #7 on: Aug 3rd, 2011, 1:53pm » |
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Yep its easy enough to do with the BOA or other aftermarket ECU's that don't have the PATS but Mark is using the BOB ECU
When I stuck the BOB in my transit I had nearly the complete Scorpio loom in there, including lights etc
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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markzetec
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #8 on: Aug 4th, 2011, 6:13pm » |
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Right well ill post as far as i have got.
I have 2 ecu's here with the codes EVER & EXAM
The EVER ecu aparently came from a P reg 24v and on testing that i can get it to generate a spark and injector firing up to the rev limit.
The EXAM ecu is a causing the problems as it wont go past 1000 rpm.
The soultion i found for the EVER won't work on the EXAM.
Looks like i have more to do to work it out but im not giving up just yet and besides which if any one has an EVER ecu it looks very poss that it can be done.
I shall keep working.................
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Matt
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #9 on: Aug 4th, 2011, 11:19pm » |
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Never heard of a EVER on a scorpio
Ive passed an ecu on via dave (howieintheplace) to a chap who cracks ecu's in japenese cars, he says hell have a look when he has chance at the bob ecu and try and crack it
But as said its not a case of bypassing with the eecv and its version if pats, it needs to see coded signals from the pats system etc
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FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham
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markzetec
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #10 on: Aug 8th, 2011, 10:56am » |
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There are 3 as far as i can tell
95GB-12A650-HG = FILM
95GB-12A650-HE = EACH
95GB-12A650-HF = EVER
I'm getting closer going to try it on an engine later on so ill post tonight how far or not i get with it.
Just 1 update before i go i found a way to get the EXAM ecu to do exactly what the EVER ecu did so i may have actually cracked it (i'm not holding my breath tho lol)
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Dave2302
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #11 on: Aug 10th, 2011, 10:13am » |
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on Aug 2nd, 2011, 7:58pm, markzetec wrote:Thanks for the reply's guys.
Dave im still not convinced it can't be done ................... |
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Hi Mark,
Like I said, myself and others have done it to death 
The man who programmed the original ones and designed PATS for Ford is a good friend of a good friend and has been very honest about all this "off the record" 
(NO NAMES NO PACKDRILL etc )
Once PATS is enabled via FDS / WDS on a brand new ECU it cannot then be switced off.
You could buy a brand new ECU of course and when programming it via FDS / WDS it will ask the PATS question, at which point you would click "NO", but that's an expensive way of doing it.
The ECU needs to see a varying digital code from the PATS module, it is not a matter of simply joining wires / earthing them etc.
They will run biefly without the PATS signal, then they shut down.
It is very easy to wire it all in when you know how.
This is why most conversions use the BOA ECU, but then you need a RPM window switch to control the VIS Valve or it won't run correctly, I have used this method on BOB's in Sierras.
The reason I am using the EECV BOB system on the Puma is that the Puma's original engine was EECV so therefore all the dash, relays, car wiring etc all work well with my conversion, and the engine wiring is easier / nicer job.
Let me know how you get on, it's always possble that a hundred or more of us "hot rodders" have missed a trick but I seriously doubt it
A mate of mine had one running on the floor for a while, before installing it in a kit car. Shortly after the ECU went into immobilised mode, and shut down............
He's now using a BOA ECU etc
Regards Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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Dave2302
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #12 on: Aug 13th, 2011, 9:59am » |
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on Aug 8th, 2011, 10:56am, markzetec wrote:
I'm getting closer going to try it on an engine later on so ill post tonight how far or not i get with it.
Just 1 update before i go i found a way to get the EXAM ecu to do exactly what the EVER ecu did so i may have actually cracked it (i'm not holding my breath tho lol)
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Come on Mark,
Any updates, does it work, I'm itching to know
BTW, I don't recognise any of those ECU codes as BOB or BOA ECU's...............
Common BOA's are BABY, 1GAA and 1GAB
My BOB ECU is EXIT, (1996 year with separate PATS Module), and a 1998 I have as a spare (still with separate PATS Module), is TACK.............
So I'm not sure what ECU's you have there mate but I don't think they are Cosworth 24V V6
Cheers Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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markzetec
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #13 on: Aug 13th, 2011, 10:23am » |
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Sorry I got a bit delayed doing the wiring on a quantum kit car and a viper engined sierra
I'm working on the Capri monday morning so I'll have results Monday night I do have the pats system Inc the key so if all else fails I'll put it in with that but I'm gonna try my theory first if I have succeeded then great if not oh well it's been worth the effort been wanting to try for ages lol
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Dave2302
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #14 on: Aug 15th, 2011, 8:43am » |
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LOL, know what you mean I haven't put a spanner on the Puma in 4 weeks, been so busy with other jobs.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Cheers Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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markzetec
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #15 on: Aug 15th, 2011, 10:55am » |
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It's been mad!!!
Parts arrived this morning to rebuild a guy's engine loom for a 24v BOB as its done it's normal trick and gone
Sometimes i wonder why i have a proper full time job and do looms as a side line i should have it the other way round really.........
Dave only 4 weeks i have a mk3 escort i have been building for the last 5 years now and i have not done any thing to it for almost 18months!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I really need to get the engine and box and get it sat in the bay but i just dont seam to have the time lol
Right leaving now ill post later on how i get on
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markzetec
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #16 on: Aug 15th, 2011, 6:00pm » |
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Ok so here is how I got on.......
Engine was a pain in the arse to start once it did start it would not tick over at all although it would rev it's arse off and god did it rev quick.
Deduction is that its overfueling at startup and flooding which is why it wont tickover.
I'm not giving up just yet although for peace of mind and speed its going to have a BOA ecu fitted for now im going to work on the BOB some more i do have an engine on a stand that i can use and see if i can get further along with when time allows i know im close and i do have a few more idea's i need to explore but i just dont have the time on this conversion to try them out as the guy wants to be running it round the track sooner rather than later lol.
Any thoughts
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Dave2302
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #17 on: Aug 16th, 2011, 9:56am » |
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Most likely not a BOB ECU, I'll stick a post up to see if we can identify all the ECU's fitted to BOB's
Cheers Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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markzetec
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #18 on: Aug 21st, 2011, 9:23am » |
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Dave looking at the other thread I'm not the only 1 with an EXAM ecu so it has to be a BOB ECU.
I do have a couple of questions that you could perhaps answer,
Are all BOB pats external?
If you have 2 ECU's and decided for what ever reason to change them over without changing anything else would the car still run?
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Dave2302
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Re: BOB wiring PATS bypass and Manual box fitting
« Reply #19 on: Aug 22nd, 2011, 10:28am » |
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All the ones I've ever seen are external, it is beleived that a few of the last ones circa 1998 were internal, but the European 1998 TACK I have is not.
From the results of the other thread it seems your EXAM is deffo a BOB ECU, but the EVER is still in doubt
With external PATS Box, yes you just swap the ECU's and they run OK, no re coding neccessary
My 1999 Puma's 1.7 ECU (the original in the car) had internal PATS, that's why I bought the '98 TACK BOB one
If it had had internal PATS I could have plugged it in and just re coded my Puma Key to it
Sadly when it got here it was not Internal PATS 
Regards Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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