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Topic: Cooling system (Read 3154 times) |
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Cooling system
« on: Mar 15th, 2006, 12:03am » |
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Hi all, newbie here. I have a similar problem to Christopher_Dean. I have a 98 facelift 2.3 Ultima.
Temp guage reads normal . All of a sudden it drops into the blue & then goes back up to the middle again, then goes back to the blue again & then back up again. It keeps doing this over & over. When I turn the heater on high. I get a sudden blast of hot air then it will gradually get cold. So I open the bonnet and feel the heater matrix outlet pipe and it feels tepid, but the inlet pipe is baking. The bottom rad hose is also tepid and the pipe from it to to expansion tank is cold.
I have a new thermostat (they've been known to be faulty from new). Just put a new water pump in. I have flushed the heater matrix backwards & forwards, flushed the rad backwards and forwards, and flushed the engine both ways as well.
I can't find a leak & the water doesn't go down but there doesn't seem to be that much pressure (pipes squeeze easily).
I previously owned a 95 Ultima & never had this kind of problem.
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mr_d
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #1 on: Mar 15th, 2006, 7:00pm » |
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Hi there i have the same problem with mine. Ive got 2.3 estate 97. Done the same as you new water pump, thermostat, temp sender. Got no preasure in hose pipes, over filled coolant and got preasure on hose pipes. Going to flush and fit new ford thermostat and expansion tank cap.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #2 on: Mar 15th, 2006, 10:33pm » |
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I have noticed that the pipe leading into the heater matrix has ballooned at the thermostat end. Would this cause a lack of pressure into the matrix?
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mr_d
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #3 on: Mar 16th, 2006, 7:55am » |
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wouldn't think it would cause low preasure. Might restrict water flow to heater
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #4 on: Mar 16th, 2006, 10:26pm » |
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Replaced the matrix inlet pipe.........no difference.
I have now:-
1) replaced the thermostat
2) replaced the water pump
3) completely flushed whole cooling system backwards & forwards
4) new pressure cap
5) replaced heater rad inlet pipe
6) refilled system very slowly with 60/40 mix of anti-freeze
7) ran engine for one hour with rad cap off & jacked up on front o/s, revving it every so often
I am now wondering whether indeed I have been sold a dud brand new thermostat by Ford.
Anyone else have any more suggestions
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #5 on: Mar 16th, 2006, 10:33pm » |
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I have also drained all the oil out to check for water. There was evidence of water so put it back in (it's only done 500 miles).
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tony
Full Member
1996 2.9 12v
Posts: 114
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #6 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 7:16am » |
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Hi jonnycab,
I take it you mean there was no evidence of water 
Still points to the thermostat as the culprit I think. You could check that it opens by putting it in a pan of water and bring it slowly up to temperature, ideally with a thermometer to check the temperature at which it opens (if it does). It could be a dud - its not unknown.
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Annelk
Newbie
2.3 Ghia X estate '98
Posts: 48
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #7 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 8:52am » |
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the correct 2.3 thermostat should be marked 88 I seem to remember.... incase you have the wrong one.
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mr_d
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #8 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 9:59am » |
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Ive got preasure now on pipes. What i done was to fill the expansin tank to the top(over fill) and run as normal. Temp gauge sits at half way and dosnt drop like it did before. Still no heat from heater until rad fan comes in. Hose from themostat to heater gets hot, but hose from heater to water pump still cold. The hose from themostat to heater is on bottom of matrix. Does anyone know if this is right, could you let me know if yours is the same.
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #9 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 10:08am » |
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Yes...sorry..... I mean't there is NO evidence of water in the oil.
My matrix inlet hose is also on the bottom & I think this is correct.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #11 on: Mar 18th, 2006, 12:10am » |
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The heater matrix is not blocked as I had heat last week. I am flushing it via the outlet/inlet pipes & then the opposite way round & no gunge or rust exits. The water runs clear and no resistance is evident (hosepipe doesn't force itself out the pipe), the water shoots out at the same rate that it goes in.
I tried the CC reset and it came up with the code '52'. Is this normal ?, as this code is not listed as a fault. If I press the air circ it then shows '00' which I know is normal.
The only other thing that I can think of is maybe a faulty fan switch.
Anyone ever had the experience of a faulty fan switch before & what were the symptoms?
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Snoopy
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Very old.BAD tempered and missing friends.
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #12 on: Mar 18th, 2006, 6:58am » |
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Code "52" could be the blower switch or the air distribution faulty seee here for fault codes http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ccreset.htm a 5 instead of a 0 is sometimes normal.
From the sounds of it you might have an airlock in the heater matrix.
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #13 on: Mar 18th, 2006, 9:13pm » |
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Thanks Snoopy for the advice. I didn't realise a '5' could be the same as a '0'. On the assumption that there was a fault with the blower switch, I pulled the CC switch panel out and took it apart. I then sprayed some switch cleaner onto the pots (in the hope it would soak in), put it all back together & plugged it back in. I then took the car for a drive and as the engine started to warm up....hey presto....there was heat....it was lovely. I checked for fault codes & all it showed was '00'...... happy days!!!!!
Unfortunately the heat only lasted for half an hour. I re-checked for faults & '07' was displayed.
The switch has always been a bit erratic....i.e...blower on halfway & all of a sudden it would go off, or air con button would light up even though it wasn't pressed. Would it be a case of just putting in a new switch panel or would the module have to be replaced?
p.s. the engine temperature also stablised and stayed slap bang in the middle without so much as a jerk. This I can't explain, unless the CC module can somehow affect engine temperature.
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Snoopy
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #14 on: Mar 19th, 2006, 7:43am » |
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"07" is an indication the HBC is playing up and needs replacing... Quite a few on here have had to replace them so worth trying to get a replacement from a later car. IT is a very easy job to replace the HBC and test it http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/hbctest.htm The SATC module is a very rare replacement but I have just heard of another going and sold the one I had but someone will have one .
The SATC Module is here http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/aircon/acmodule.pdf
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #15 on: Mar 21st, 2006, 12:51am » |
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Thanks again Snoopy for the advice. I checked the HBC & all is fine in that department. The CC panel did have an intermittent fault but the switch cleaner on the potentimeters seemed to sort that one out. So there are no longer any fault codes.
As for the lack of heat, I managed to finally sort that out today. I was kind of resigned to the fact that I was going to have to perform the major operation of pulling the dash out and replacing the heater matrix.
I thought I'd try one more backflush and refill.
I left the hose pipe in the heater matrix outlet pipe for about half an hour on full power & then another half hour on the inlet pipe (God knows what the water meter is going to read). It was running clear all the time, but there could have been very small particles of rust gradually being washed out, which you wouldn't really be able to see.
Before refilling the system, I pulled off the small pipe on the expansion tank & pushed a three foot length of TRANSPARENT tubing into it up to about six inches. I then gaffa taped the other end to the under-bonnet so the top was two & half feet above the expansion tank (a couple of feet would probably be ok, it was just that this was the length I had). Next I re-filled the cooling system up to the max mark on the tank. I then started the engine (expansion cap off, but not sure it really matters).
Now the good bit...... As the engine started to warm up, I revved it occasionally and could see the blue anti-freeze going up the TRANSPARENT tube followed by.......AIR !!!!... The anti-freeze then dropped back down & the air was expelled. The beauty of this is that you can see it coming out while sitting in the drivers seat.
When the engine was hot and the heater was hot and no more air could be seen coming out of the transparent tube (just anti-freeze going up & dropping back down when revving). I connected the small pipe back on to the expansion tank, topped it back up with about half a litre of anti-freeze (level was just below min) and replaced the pressure cap.
I'm not sure whether it was the 1 hour matrix flush or the 3 foot transparent tube that did it, but who cares....
I have heat again !!!! hallaylloooyahhhh
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Snoopy
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #16 on: Mar 21st, 2006, 6:29am » |
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Good result in the end. We all might have learnt something from this . Thanks for the explanation.
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #17 on: Mar 29th, 2006, 12:45am » |
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Just had to re-fill my cooling system again due to the cooling fan switch popping out. Did the transparent tube method again & it was a success. The heater matrix seems to have an airlock that cannot be disspelled from just raising the car at the front & revving with the expansion cap off. The only way I can get all the air out of the system is by putting a long pipe in the small expansion tank pipe.
P.S. from cold start up to hot this method takes 20 minutes & if you're thinking about changing your matrix, try this first, it may save alot of hassle. Obviously airlocks are a problem in the Scorpio heater matrix.
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Chris Dean
Newbie
'98 2.3 Ultima Saloon
Posts: 35
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #18 on: Mar 29th, 2006, 5:00pm » |
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Well done Jonnycab,
I wish I had persiverd with flushing the matrix out, instead of taking the entire dashboard out. But worth it in the end.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Cooling system
« Reply #19 on: Apr 4th, 2006, 11:13pm » |
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Heater's cold again & matrix outlet pipe is cold.........hmmm........It looks like a matrix change. Flushing the matrix & getting rid of the airlocks worked for a while but I suppose there is no getting away from the inevitable. Matrix obviously must have a restricted flow & seems to block up easily.
I've printed off the procedure & will start tomorrow. Can it be done in a day?.....lets see
Oh well.......here we go........
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