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Topic: Help - more toys, BIGGER PROBLEM!! (Read 1603 times) |
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Baw_Flinger
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Ex 2.3 owner..... Snif
Posts: 438
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Help - more toys, BIGGER PROBLEM!!
« on: May 25th, 2006, 9:37am » |
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Serious traffic going in to work this morning and hit a stationary spell for a good 30 mins. All of a sudden, massive amount of steam beltching out of the engine bay, the temp gauge was a bit higher so pulled over and switched off. Under the bonnet, massive amount of coolant dumped and sprayed all over everything on the left hand side of the bay. The coolant bottle has not lost anything but the top pipes are empty and full of air. Also, no mayo in bottle or engine dipstick, so I hope the HG is OK as it never went anywhere near red. Car starts and runs well, then temp gauge starts to rise at a moderate pace on a 1 min turn over I hope it is just a pipe but would a stuck thermostat cause a pressure build up? Any ideas of possable causes? I need to get shares at the Early Learning Center at the rate I am going.
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Baw_Flinger
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Ex 2.3 owner..... Snif
Posts: 438
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #1 on: May 25th, 2006, 9:44am » |
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OK just had a read on the main site at the fault finder (should know better  ) This is all beyond me so I have my mechanic on his way. Will look at thermostat, rad blockage etc from fault finder. Anybody have any specific experience with this one that may help?
Cheers in advance.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #2 on: May 25th, 2006, 10:02am » |
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I had a similar problem but mine was slightly more serious. My fan sensor blew out of the manifold along with all the water. On closer inspection the manifold had a crack in it right where the fan sensor fitted in. The sensor had been stuck in with filler by the previous owner.
If there is coolant all over the left hand side of engine bay then the thermostat/fan sensor/temp sender part of the manifold seems like a good place to look.
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tintin
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I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 592
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #3 on: May 25th, 2006, 10:12am » |
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i had very similar on my cossie, it was the rubber pipe leading to thermostat. was fine until i hit big traffic, then the pipe would swell and start leaking, steam from the passenger side of the engine, but not massive water loss. let it cool down, topped it up, drove it home no problems, no leaks (explain that one to the AA man  )
mine was a pain to get to, had to take the manifold off to repair, might be easier on the 2.3
hope this helps.....
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'95 Cosworth Ultima
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bizzay1
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1997 Cosworth Saloon
Posts: 481
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #4 on: May 25th, 2006, 11:15am » |
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when my hg went the temp only rose slightly above the middle of the gauge, eventually found it was caused by the inlet manifold being cracked just behind the thermostat housing
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Baw_Flinger
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Ex 2.3 owner..... Snif
Posts: 438
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #5 on: May 25th, 2006, 12:37pm » |
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Just spoke to my bloke and he found a ripped hose. He has checked the thermostat and that is OK. The new hose is on its way to him this afternoon so we wont know if anything is assunder until he gets that on, fill up and pressure test..... The stress is killing me 
Thanks guys for the info so far!!
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Baw_Flinger
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Ex 2.3 owner..... Snif
Posts: 438
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #6 on: May 25th, 2006, 3:46pm » |
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Yup, hose only  Thank goodness but he has advised me to replace most of the coolant hoses as they are all borderline (cracking/balooning). I would advise anyone to check theirs if they have never done so, before the really hot weather comes in 
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Dave
Senior Member
Tourmallard 24v (ex-owner)
Posts: 1984
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #7 on: May 25th, 2006, 6:43pm » |
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Phew - and good tip about checking the hoses!
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Life after the Scorpio ain't easy..
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Baw_Flinger
Full Member
Ex 2.3 owner..... Snif
Posts: 438
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #8 on: May 25th, 2006, 8:35pm » |
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Not only that mate, I came across a wee gem of info from him today. He brought it round and we went for a run and a few more tests. He was not happy with the pressure build up in the system and pointed out that my thermostat was not a Ford one. Apparently the Ford part has a 3mm hole on the rim that helps prevent over pressure when the engine runs really hot. He took out the thermostat and put a 3mm hole in and was happy with the pressure after that. Now, I maybe dont know enough about problems like this but is this not the type of over pressure problem that causes balooning rads in the 24v. As I said, this is probably nonsense on my part but just a thought, was certaily enough to blow a 3" hole in an old hose. Need to check the levels tomorrow, but I think I am up and running now.
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sector-9
Senior Member
No scorpio anymore
Posts: 1069
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #9 on: May 25th, 2006, 11:03pm » |
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Some aftermarket themostats do have a hole in the rim already - usually there is a small 'jiggle' pin fitted loosely to stop it getting blocked up with deposits and scale.
The hole isn't there to stop pressure build up (not exactly) as when the engine is hot the thermostat should be fully open anyway. What the hole is for is to help bleed the system; when you fill it up it is cold and thermostat closed, so it is possible to get an airlock behind it, which means that it may not warm up and open as quick as it should. This is most likely when the thermostat is fitted horizontally as on the old Kent engines though...
Darren
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #10 on: May 26th, 2006, 1:36am » |
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I have found that I have to buy genuine Ford thermostats as the after market ones will not fit in the housing....they are always slightly larger in diameter & once you have stretched the rubber ring around them they just won't squeeze in.
Also Baw...the pipe that was replaced...was it the one that goes from the thermostat housing to the heater matrix? & was it just split or was it ballooned as well?
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Baw_Flinger
Full Member
Ex 2.3 owner..... Snif
Posts: 438
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #11 on: May 26th, 2006, 8:19am » |
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Ahhhhh, I picked that up wrong then (had been a very long day) thanks Yup, that was the very fellow. Most of it did not look balooned but then again it was completely torn from one end up about 3" and wide open, so hard to say. I cant aford to get all of the hoses done at the moment but the one that needs doing is that large fat one with the little hose that comes off the center and goes into the expansion bottle. This is well swollen and totaly balooning out, but I didnt know any better before.
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Baw_Flinger
Full Member
Ex 2.3 owner..... Snif
Posts: 438
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #12 on: May 26th, 2006, 11:58am » |
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Does anyone know the name and part number for the number 2 hose on this diagram? This is the one that looks like a comedy balloon animal in mine and needs replacing ASAP
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sector-9
Senior Member
No scorpio anymore
Posts: 1069
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #13 on: May 27th, 2006, 11:53am » |
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Radiator top-hose by the look of it.
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Baw_Flinger
Full Member
Ex 2.3 owner..... Snif
Posts: 438
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Re: Help - more toys all over the floor
« Reply #14 on: May 27th, 2006, 9:44pm » |
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Thanks.
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Baw_Flinger
Full Member
Ex 2.3 owner..... Snif
Posts: 438
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Re: Help - more toys, BIGGER PROBLEM!!
« Reply #15 on: May 28th, 2006, 6:21pm » |
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Bad, bad, bad!!! Out on a run today and stuck in traffic, bloody thing starts overheating again!! So it would seem that the burst hose was a symptom of an underlying problem.
Is the top rad hose (as above) ment to be rock solid (causing balooning)? My mechanic warned last week that he was not happy with the pressure in that hose, said it should not be that hard. I called him today and I need to get it round to him in the morn. He does not sound to hopefull and recons there is defo something causing a build up in the system which could point to a crack or HGF  Wont know until proper tests are done. After that, I checked the oil and it is gunk free as is the bottle. The oil was quite low and I topped it up, on a run (getting back home) right after the temp gauge ran a bit hot but all of a sudden it dropped about a quarter of the way to blue then rose to normal and stayed there  I bled the system, refill and re-bled to death and as a test, removed the thermostat and ran the car. Took for a spin until running temp, then let it run at a standstill for 15 mins. The coolling fans run as normal but I could not get the temp to raise over midway The top pipe was rock solid though, so again, is this normal?
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Help - more toys, BIGGER PROBLEM!!
« Reply #16 on: May 29th, 2006, 12:13am » |
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How warm are the pipes going to & from the heater matrix?
In this warm? weather we don't tend to use the heating to much. Turn the heating on max & see if it blows red hot air. If not then it could be that the matrix has a blockage or a very minute leek. A blockage will cause extra pressure on the manifold around the thermostat area, & a leak will let in air & cause alot of bubbling.
I recently had the same kind of problem & after back flushing the matrix a few times the problem still occured. I eventually replaced the heater matrix & on inspecting the old matrix, noticed green gunge at the top (where the pipes go in). This was obviously where the air was getting in but there was never any evidence of leakage in the car, or a smell of anti-freeze.
P.S. my temp guage used to be erratic until I replaced the heater matrix...& now it's fine.
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mr._floppy
Junior Member
Posts: 100
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Re: Help - more toys, BIGGER PROBLEM!!
« Reply #17 on: May 29th, 2006, 12:44am » |
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Just a thought, it is the 4 pot isn't it ?, as the the top rad hose has the T junction to the expansion tank, could it be a faulty expansion tank pressure cap not lifting to allow pressurised water to escape thus causing a " hard " hose and subsequent ballooning ?
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Help - more toys, BIGGER PROBLEM!!
« Reply #18 on: May 29th, 2006, 12:48am » |
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You could try a new expansion tank cap....I did...& it made no difference.
So I've got a decent spare cap.
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sector-9
Senior Member
No scorpio anymore
Posts: 1069
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Re: Help - more toys, BIGGER PROBLEM!!
« Reply #19 on: May 29th, 2006, 7:25pm » |
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The cap on the expansion tank is actually a two-way pressure sensitive valve. It's designed to open at a specified positive pressure to protect the system from damage. Also, it will open if any negative pressure (i.e. vacuum caused when the liquid cools and contracts) - normally the pressure generated isn't high enough to blow the valve so there is no vacuum when it cools down (as none has been lost). However, if the pressure becomes so great that the valve opens to relieve it, then when the system cools down it will 'suck' air back in through the cap to balance what was lost.
The system is pressurised because it is sealed until the relief valve opens and as the coolant heats up it expands which compresses the air in the system. The rise in pressure raises the boiling point of the water and makes the hoses go hard - of course, you can run the cooling system with the cap off but the boiling point will then be lower than it would if pressurised and there is a high chance of sloshing hot coolant out of the filler neck...
So, the valve in the cap should open before the pressure becomes so high it damages hoses and stuff.
Darren
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