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Topic: Timing chain on a 2.3. (Read 2469 times) |
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ChrisF
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All the Granny's now the best 98 2.3 16v Ultima
  
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Timing chain on a 2.3.
« on: Jun 1st, 2008, 7:43pm » |
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Is there anything on the timing chain (re-newing). I can find about the 2.0 and 2.9 but not the 2.3. I am pretty certain that the rattling on start up is down to the timing chain.
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ChrisF
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All the Granny's now the best 98 2.3 16v Ultima
Posts: 136
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #2 on: Jun 1st, 2008, 8:53pm » |
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Thanks Tompion
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ChrisF
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All the Granny's now the best 98 2.3 16v Ultima
Posts: 136
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #3 on: Jun 1st, 2008, 9:04pm » |
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Good God . . . . I read somewhere that it was easy!
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grandadman
Full Member
This is what I need ;)
Posts: 189
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #4 on: Jun 2nd, 2008, 5:46pm » |
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on Jun 1st, 2008, 7:43pm, ChrisF wrote:| Is there anything on the timing chain (re-newing). I can find about the 2.0 and 2.9 but not the 2.3. I am pretty certain that the rattling on start up is down to the timing chain. |
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Wow that appears a bigger job than the 24V Cosworth
 Can any knowledgeable member explain exactly what is the root cause of these rattles on the Ford Scorpio Ultimas ~ Seems to be a common problem to
me
I have it on my Cosworth during the colder weather.
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Matt
Senior Member
Manual'd and a 4.0 in the making
Posts: 2816
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #5 on: Jun 2nd, 2008, 6:57pm » |
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on the 24v's its the timing chain tensioners, they lose oil pressure over night and 'slacken' off the chain
could be the same prob with the 2.3, although its chain tensioner is non refurbable,
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keitho
Newbie
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 11
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #6 on: Jun 3rd, 2008, 9:11am » |
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The 2.3 engine is similar to the 2.0 only it has an extra "gearbox" that contains the balancer shafts. These restore the secondary engine imbalance that is inherent in a four cylinder engine. The upshot of this is that there is an extra timing chain to drive these shafts and of course it has to be timed correctly. The camshaft timing chain is tensioned with a preloaded piston that has to be released after it has been fitted......you only get one shot at this and if it is released by accident (eg dropping on floor) then you have to get a new one. There are a few things that can cause the rattle..... chain, guides or piston tensioner... you need to get the front cover off the chains and have a look really. If the chain breaks then you are into serious repairs which may not be worthwhile.
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Scorpio_Mike
Senior Member
Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 & 2.8 Sierra XR4i 4x4
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #7 on: Jun 3rd, 2008, 12:14pm » |
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In case you have not yet got your timing chain kit - these guys might be worth contacting :
www.enginestuff.co.uk
£83.19 for a 2.3 16v timing chain kit sounds quite reasonable to me.
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Sierra XR4i's are great...especially when fitted with 4WD 
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ChrisF
Full Member
All the Granny's now the best 98 2.3 16v Ultima
Posts: 136
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #8 on: Jun 19th, 2008, 11:52pm » |
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Sounds good, but does it come complete, you know with the required tensioner etc. There was someone who had already changed a timing belt on here and wrote all about it but I cant find it. Anybody can help?
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #9 on: Jun 20th, 2008, 2:40am » |
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As Matt says, it's probably down to losing oil pressure over night......but once the oil has been bought back up from the sump & lubricated the timing chain & tensioner then the noise dissapears.
It may not be a real cause for concern as long as the rattling only last a few seconds, but a possible cause for the tensioner stiffening up may be down to how the engine is (or has been) serviced.
When changing the oil, most mechanics etc just drain the old stuff out & replace it. Unfortunately there are still alot of deposits & sludge left in the engine & the only way to get them out is to use a good engine flush (Wynns etc) to remove all the harmful gunk that clogs up the engine.
If these deposits aren't removed then it will eventually build up to a point where oilways will get clogged & moving parts (ie..tensioners) will start to stiffen up because of contamination.
Check the oil just before the next oil change....if it's black, then the engine has alot of deposits & sludge, & needs flushing.
Flushing the engine at every oil change does have a dramatic effect on the longevity of an engine & all the moving parts inside it 
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gozz
Senior Member
Been around awhile
Posts: 3475
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #10 on: Jun 20th, 2008, 9:13am » |
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Come along JC,the only reason for a fouled engine is neglecting regular oil changes,modern oil is such that the engine is kept like a man on Andrews Liver Salts ! When I get used funeral vehicles it is not difficult to see those which have been abused,because the oil is dirty again within a few miles,in this case flushing is necessary.
GOZZ
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Snoopy
Administrator
Very old.BAD tempered and missing friends.
Posts: 6278
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #11 on: Jun 20th, 2008, 9:45am » |
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The use of diesel oil for a short period is as good as any flushing oil and in many case cheaper and does a better job IMHO . Modern diesel oils are high detergent and clean every thing out and hold it in suspension .
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #12 on: Jun 20th, 2008, 1:02pm » |
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I suppose if you change the oil at intervals of less than the recommended 10K miles, then there would probably be minimal fouling, but I personally do it at 10K miles (about every 4 1/2 months) & I use an engine flush & let the oil drip for about an hour, so as to get as much out as possible
Just draining the oil & re-filling with fresh means there will always be some oil in the engine left over from the last 10K miles, so the new oil will contaminate quicker.
On the 2.3 engine the handbook states that the engine (with filter) takes 4.25 litres of oil, although this is probably closer to 4.5 litres. But when I do an oil change by flushing the oil & letting it drip for an hour, my engine will take just over 5 litres until it reaches almost to the top of the dipstick.
So does that mean that Ford's figures are based on the fact that there will always be half a litre of old oil left clinging to the inside of the engine ?....& does using an engine flush mean that it is possible to remove this extra half litre so that you really are re-filling the whole engine with brand new, fresh oil ? ......
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ChrisF
Full Member
All the Granny's now the best 98 2.3 16v Ultima
Posts: 136
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #13 on: Jun 20th, 2008, 7:02pm » |
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Does anybody know if anybody has written of their experiences of doing the above chain on a 2.3, I've found one about a 2.0 but not a 2.3.
The clicking has suddenly got worse (about 50mls) to the extent that its so loud that people up the road turn around, any ideas!
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gozz
Senior Member
Been around awhile
Posts: 3475
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #14 on: Jun 21st, 2008, 12:37am » |
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ChrisF
Clicking does'nt sound very'chainy'.If it is,and people in the street can hear it,danger point must be nigh !
Are you sure it's not something in the belt run,tensioner for instance.or aircon clutch,have you tried it with the belt off ?
GOZZ
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #15 on: Jun 21st, 2008, 10:34am » |
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hi there
are you sure it's not the cat that's rattling? that can make quite a loud sound as well.
that's where my money would be on a 2.3.
hth
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ChrisF
Full Member
All the Granny's now the best 98 2.3 16v Ultima
Posts: 136
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #16 on: Jun 21st, 2008, 12:31pm » |
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I dont think it is the cat as it definatley is rythmic with the engine revs. But the belt it could be, is there anything on the belt that could give the metalic sound, it isnt the compressor, thats the next thing to do, it doesnt cut in.
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ChrisF
Full Member
All the Granny's now the best 98 2.3 16v Ultima
Posts: 136
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #17 on: Jun 21st, 2008, 6:48pm » |
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The latest news is:-
It wasnt anything on the belt, took it of and the noise was still there.
But I stripped it down with the intention of checking the chain and low and behold the camshaft cap nearest to the chain was almost off, the nuts were so loose that they were nerely off. Is it possible that this was the cause of the noise. Help!
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #18 on: Jun 21st, 2008, 7:12pm » |
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Are the spark plugs in tight ?........a mate of mine had a terrible clattering on his 2.3 that went up & down with revs.........turns out it was down to a loose spark plug
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
« Reply #19 on: Jun 21st, 2008, 10:12pm » |
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Do you mean the caps shown here 3rd picture down page 4:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/engines/dohc2_3/2300Camshafts.pdf
If you do mean them then yes I would expect a noise and possibly damage to the caps/camshaft – I would imagine it would also cause low oil pressure. The right thing to do is strip down and carefully inspect, but I must admit these days I’d probably just tighten them and see what happens.
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