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Topic: Engine pinking (Read 4634 times) |
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magnetono59
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Engine pinking
« on: Feb 6th, 2012, 7:28pm » |
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My car is a Scorpio 2L 16V estate 1996. My problem is that the engine will start OK and will rev OK in neutral but will pink under load particularly on hills.
I have cleaned the MAF but it made no difference. I have the usual problem with the loom being damaged due to engine heat but it has been like that for many years. I am reluctant to replace it not knowing if it is the problem. Does anybody know if the damaged wires can be replaced with heat resistant wire.
I have read articles on the site about OBD and I would like to know if the lead and software would be a good investment, or does any member have a lead for sale.
Any help with my problem would be appreciated.
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a900one
Full Member
A scorpio is for life not just for christmas
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #1 on: Feb 6th, 2012, 8:09pm » |
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Have you tried V Power?.
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #2 on: Feb 6th, 2012, 10:08pm » |
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A member of the site had problems with pinking on his 2.3 which turned out to be a faulty camshaft sensor. Check the wiring to yours isn’t shorting or trapped under the coilpack cover.
My 2.3 will run fine without the cam sensor connected I assume the same applies to the 2.0 so you could try disconnecting it to see if it makes a difference.
Yes you can replace the wires, but I changed the loom on mine as the plugs were crumbling & it’s difficult to get the plugs.
All the wires of the Fuel Cut-off Loom were in poor condition on mine not just those at the top of the engine.
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/dohcloom.htm
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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magnetono59
Junior Member
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #3 on: Feb 6th, 2012, 10:28pm » |
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Two questions. What is V Power and is the crankshaft sensor the one at the rear right hand side of the engine? One other point I forgot to mention. When I was checking the plugs that there was oil in the cavity of the plug nearest the front.
I have made a contribution.
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #4 on: Feb 6th, 2012, 11:20pm » |
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I assume V power is Shell petrol. Yes that's the location of the cam sensor. The oil is probably the cylinder head cover gasket leaking.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Matt
Senior Member
Manual'd and a 4.0 in the making
Posts: 2816
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #5 on: Feb 7th, 2012, 10:16am » |
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Hiya
Where are you located, a few members have obd equipment dotted around the country, im sure a cup of tea and a bacon butty will tempt one of them to come over to you
Yes vpower is shells super duper fuel, but at 1.43 a liter its costly
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FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham
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magnetono59
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Posts: 73
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #6 on: Feb 7th, 2012, 11:12am » |
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I will try removing the sensor today. I live in south west Ireland so unfortunately I cannot avail of members help I doubt if a bacon butty would entice members to travel to Limerick. I don't think we have that brand of shell.
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Highlander
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Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #7 on: Feb 7th, 2012, 11:30am » |
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lol I was in Shannon but 4 weeks ago 
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #8 on: Feb 7th, 2012, 1:43pm » |
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on Feb 7th, 2012, 11:12am, magnetono59 wrote:| I will try removing the sensor today. I live in south west Ireland so unfortunately I cannot avail of members help I doubt if a bacon butty would entice members to travel to Limerick. I don't think we have that brand of shell. |
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The sensor is easy enough to remove but I was just suggesting you unplug it & see if it still pinks.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #9 on: Feb 7th, 2012, 5:13pm » |
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on Feb 6th, 2012, 10:08pm, Tompion wrote:A member of the site had problems with pinking on his 2.3 which turned out to be a faulty camshaft sensor. Check the wiring to yours isn’t shorting or trapped under the coilpack cover.
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That was me a few years ago. The car used to suffer from terrible intermittent pinking under load & it was indeed down to a faulty camshaft sensor 
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magnetono59
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #10 on: Feb 7th, 2012, 8:22pm » |
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I tried removing the camshaft sensor but it didn't make any difference, however if the sensor is faulty it wouldnt be a proper test. Does anybody know if the sensor should be normally open or short circuit. I will probably have to replace the loom in any case to make a proper diagnosis.
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #11 on: Feb 8th, 2012, 10:38am » |
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I would imagine the 2L would be the same as the 2.3L however I’m unable to confirm the results would be the same.
There is no noticeable difference in performance on mine whether or not the cam sensor is connected, therefore on mine if it started pinking with it connected & continued to pink with it disconnected that would suggest the fault was elsewhere.
If it stopped pinking with the cam sensor disconnected then the fault may be with the cam sensor (I say may because the engine control could be using a different strategy).
The fault finder page suggests the fuel pressure regulator/fuel filter/fuel pump.
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm
Another possibility is a non-functioning EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) see here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/egr.htm
However some people have the EGR disabled & I’ve not seen any reports of pinking but I would imagine quality of fuel & driving style could have an effect.
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magnetono59
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #12 on: Feb 9th, 2012, 11:43am » |
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I have enquired about the loom here and it will cost 216 Euro. Can anybody suggest a supplier in the UK where it costs £90.00. Will the new loom suffer from the same problem of insulation damage?
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #13 on: Feb 12th, 2012, 1:12pm » |
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Yes, eventually. 
I was going to say CPS wires are amongst that set which can get roasted by the cylinder head heat, i.e. the so-called 'cut off loom', actually coilpack wiring ~ so could be brittle / crumbling insulation on those wires.
Rather than buy loom can you not repair by soldering in new wires?
PS: I leave the plastic cover off in Summer so cyl head heat has a better chance to escape. Also I have heat resistant sleeving on my new wires in case plastic insulation fails, still some insulation on top.
As Tompion says though need to establish if CPS is actually causing the problem.
IIRC the ignition module uses the CPS signal, if it can't get it it defaults to 10 degrees BTDC.
HTH
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Mike H
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magnetono59
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #14 on: Feb 13th, 2012, 9:05pm » |
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First let me say thanks for all the suggestions. I would have no problem in repairing the loom if I can get the proper wire. In fact I could build a new loom if I could get the wire and plugs. I have sent a request to a possible supplier but as yet no reply. There may be a problem with the pins of the plugs. The wiring under the cover is in a very poor condition I thought that as this is the low tension side of the coil pack and as long as the wires are not touching it should not cause a problem. This damage is visable but there may be damage somewhere else in the loom. I see that there are looms available on ebay at £187.00 this is probably about the value of the car. Can anybody tell me where the four wires from the coil packs go to.
Is it possible to contact the member who bought a loom for £90.00.
Apologies for all the questions
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #15 on: Feb 13th, 2012, 10:26pm » |
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The main site doesn't get updated so the quoted cost is what it was a long time back when the article was written.
In Feb 2006 mine was £98 from http://www.fordpartsuk.com/ (the same firm you’ve found on ebay).
With regard deterioration the wires still appear to be in good condition but the convoluted sleeving to the coil packs has become brittle (which doesn’t really matter).
The coilpack wires go back to the long plastic cover over the injectors (you can unclip the cover) & from there back to the big connector on the wing.
On the ebay picture they go into the right hand end of the long box at the top of the picture & from there down the large conduit to the big plug on the left of the picture.
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Simmo
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #16 on: Feb 14th, 2012, 7:00am » |
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The plugs will be your main problem. This has been researched before and they appear to be specific to Ford and although there are many 'look alikes' they are not a match. The solution is to retain the plugs and a short section of wireto connect to if possible. A good firm is Vehicle Wiring Products..0115 9305454. Site is Here
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magnetono59
Junior Member
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Posts: 73
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #17 on: Feb 14th, 2012, 7:58pm » |
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Vehicle wiring products is the company that I emailed but they have not replied as yet. Is the wire required a special type to withstand the heat off the engine? Is there a wiring diagram of the loom?
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Simmo
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #18 on: Feb 15th, 2012, 8:25am » |
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My advice would be to ring them. They were very helpful and knowledgeable when I was researching the availability of plugs. Their catalogue lists range of heat resistant sleeving which can be used to protect the cables.
Have a look at This page courtesy of Snoopy
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Engine pinking
« Reply #19 on: Feb 15th, 2012, 11:36am » |
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on Feb 14th, 2012, 7:58pm, magnetono59 wrote:| Vehicle wiring products is the company that I emailed but they have not replied as yet. |
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I was going to suggest them too.
Quote:| Is the wire required a special type to withstand the heat off the engine? Is there a wiring diagram of the loom? |
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No think it's just 'ordinary' ~ I know of a transformer maker who uses stuff with plastic insulation able to stand 400 degrees, but is not something you can readily get hold of I don't think. As I said taking the plastic cyl head top cover off helps enormously so wire insulation has a much easier life then I think.
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Mike H
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