Author |
Topic: Chain rattle fixing (Read 3527 times) |
|
Octavian_P
Senior Member
 
 
Posts: 1126
|
 |
Chain rattle fixing
« on: Nov 25th, 2005, 12:18pm » |
 Quote  Modify
|
Hello to all
I do not have a 2.9 cossie powerd scorp but reading the confidential list have found a memeber posting some ways of "pre-tensioning" the chain guides. Doing a lot o www-ing found this
"An alternative to engine additives: pre-pressurisation"
http://www.autoenginelube.com/pages/903473/index.htm
or
http://www.pre-luber.com/
These products store oil under pressure or have a electric pump. When activated it creates oil pressure in the system and also prevents cold starts and dry starts. These kits also reduce engine wear, make turn easier etc.
I think this could help a lot of cossies out there, and a lot of other scorps, i myself think of buying one for my 2.3, just to avoid rough starts, cold starts etc.
|
|
 IP Logged |
2.0 16V Ultima|2.3 16V Ghia|2.9 24V Cosworth Ghia
|
|
|
Baz
Moderator
Senior Member
S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
Posts: 4009
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #1 on: Nov 25th, 2005, 8:09pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I always always always turn the key with my foot hard down on the accelerator until the oil pressure light goes out. Never had any rattle in either Cossie I had because doing this does pre presurise the system and flows oil around the system without trurning the chains.
Plus having an oil change every 5-6000 miles and using magnatec works wonders too!!
Baz
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Octavian_P
Senior Member
Posts: 1126
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #2 on: Nov 25th, 2005, 10:56pm » |
Quote Modify
|
 Changing oil is good but did you know that when the engine sat for a few days ( all the oil went back) when you start it it's like doing 400 miles with it.
|
|
IP Logged |
2.0 16V Ultima|2.3 16V Ghia|2.9 24V Cosworth Ghia
|
|
|
ricky
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 165
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #3 on: Nov 26th, 2005, 7:06pm » |
Quote Modify
|
baz , sorry but how dos pressing the throttle down stop the chains from turning and how dos it pressurize the system , rick
|
|
IP Logged |
"Two tonnes of electronic infested metal"...
|
|
|
Snoopy
Administrator
Very old.BAD tempered and missing friends.
Posts: 6278
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #4 on: Nov 27th, 2005, 11:47am » |
Quote Modify
|
Because the engine does not start with the throttle fully open.. and therefore presurises the system.. When you release the accelerator pedal and start normally the oil ways have already been filled and hence no chain rattle>
|
|
IP Logged |
HELP the FORUM.Please DONATE
|
|
|
Baz
Moderator
Senior Member
S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
Posts: 4009
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #5 on: Nov 27th, 2005, 11:35pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Thanks for that Dave, you beat me to it!!
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
brewer
Junior Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 59
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #6 on: Dec 9th, 2005, 6:17pm » |
Quote Modify
|
But the engine turns all the same!It simply doesn't fire up.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
david_molloy
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 172
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #7 on: Dec 13th, 2005, 7:31pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Yes - but I think the theory is that it is turning a lot slower than tickover so chains don't flap about as much. Once tensioners pumped up no slack no rattle.
Similar to precharging oil filter.
Call me a boring old fart but whenever I,ve changed my Sierra oil filter I always disconnect coil HT and crank until oil warning light goes out then reconnect & start. Never had electric problem doing so.
Just don't like idea of plain bearings operating with no oil pressure.
As I'm a new Scorpio owner don't have any experience with 24V but flooring pedal appears to do same job as above & I will do it every filter change.
Well that's my take on the matter
david
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #8 on: Dec 13th, 2005, 8:07pm » |
Quote Modify
|
If your chain rattles on start-up then damage is occuring, that's what the noise is, so if you can stop the noise/damage by building the oil pressure up before it starts then I would think it is a good idea.
Best fix is the pre-lube system but the foot to the floor is also good as it will do the same job with very little if any damage to the guides/chains which is the parts that are being damaged when it rattles.
Some cars go for years with a start up rattle others die soon after. It is the way it goes. 
|
|
IP Logged |
Dave
|
|
|
SaveTheNight
Senior Member
I can resist anything ...except temptation !!
 
Posts: 1961
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #9 on: Dec 13th, 2005, 10:25pm » |
Quote Modify
|
familiarity breeds contempt though guys .. If it looks like a duck ..and walks like a duck ..and quacks like a duck .. then it definitely is a duck ! ....
... if there's a rattle it really is worn and should be sorted ... much as we all would like to think it will be ok ... just my view though ... STN
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
david_molloy
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 172
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #10 on: Dec 13th, 2005, 10:56pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Hello
Has anyone fit one of the pre-lubers refered to by Octavian.
The pressure vessel type looks tempting.
david
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
SaveTheNight
Senior Member
I can resist anything ...except temptation !!
Posts: 1961
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #11 on: Dec 13th, 2005, 11:05pm » |
Quote Modify
|
We use them on race engines and they are very effective .. Vlad Soare on the site here has one fitted but we haven't seen him for a while ? .. but they WILL disguise the problem and it does add another possible problem.. at the take off from the oil pressure switch ..if a bad fitting was made there then the resultant quick oil loss would probably be terminal ... STN
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #12 on: Dec 14th, 2005, 12:59am » |
Quote Modify
|
Hmmm well if you have the rattle it is a problem, it is not normal for the engine, not a " oh they all do that sir dealer quote  "
I have took engines apart that have rattled on start-up for say 3 seconds that don't appear to be too badley damaged. It all depends on how long yours has been rattling (days/years?) & how well you have looked after the engine I reckon.
3 causes of the rattle:
Guides breaking up or badley worn so tensioner can not tension = strip & fit new.
Tensioner worn or partially cloged = fit new tensioner, pre-lube, change oil & use a flush, foot down method?
Chain stretch/worn = Renew
Problem is you won't know which one it is unless you strip the area, a pre-lube system for example is only going to help in one area & then it's not a fix but simply helps but will help to mask all the problems in their early stages, this will give you more miles.
Of course Scorpio's are getting to the stage in there life that you have to weigh up the cost of repairs so it is up to you what to do. A Scorpio could last years with a start-up rattle, or days if it is say the guides breaking up.
So for this reason I think pre-lube & the foot down method is both good ideas to get a few extra miles out of your 24V. Indeed it's possible they could help to prevent the problem but only where the tensioner itself is concerned.
& as STN pointed out the pre lube has to be fitted to a high standard as a major oil loss at say 4000 rpm on the motorway would destroy your engine before you could stop on the hard shoulder. Seen it before 
Well that's my view on it all.
To sum up.
Pre-lubes are good for new engines as most wear takes place upon start-up before the oil pressure has built up, an old engine will already have the wear but I guess it will help. If you already have a rattle then it's to late really.
I think this thread is prevention more than cure for the rattle, so I hope I have not waffled on too much 
|
|
IP Logged |
Dave
|
|
|
Highlander
Moderator
Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #13 on: Dec 14th, 2005, 12:50pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Someone on the mailing list suggested the oil pump sprocket teeth can wear quickly as the chain has a low contact area with the sprocket and could jump over the teeth especially when starting from cold with the added resistance of cold/thick oil.
Would this also sound like a chain rattle until the pump got moving?
|
|
IP Logged |
on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
|
|
|
|
Pegasus
Full Member
24V Cosworth Ultima Born: Sept 97, sold Aug 23
Posts: 742
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #14 on: Dec 14th, 2005, 8:53pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Hi,
excellent advice on this issue but can you clarify 1 thing for me:
When you've got the throttle on the floor do you turn the ignition to position II or position III? 
What is the exact sequence for starting up when using this procedure?
TIA,
Paul
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Paul B
Senior Member
'98 24V Ultima saloon
Posts: 2442
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #15 on: Dec 14th, 2005, 9:06pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I think its position III Paul.
I did this once before, and the fricking thing actually started!  Not good
Never attempted it again 
|
|
IP Logged |
Two hundred & seven horses and only one jockey!
|
|
|
Pegasus
Full Member
24V Cosworth Ultima Born: Sept 97, sold Aug 23
Posts: 742
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #16 on: Dec 14th, 2005, 9:15pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Hi Paul,
that's what I'm afraid off - can't be good for the engine when this happens
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Highlander
Moderator
Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #17 on: Dec 14th, 2005, 9:23pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Shouldnt start on Wide Open Throttle, must be something wrong somewhere.
I press throttle to the floor and hold it there while I turn the engine over.
|
|
IP Logged |
on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
|
|
|
|
SaveTheNight
Senior Member
I can resist anything ...except temptation !!
Posts: 1961
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #18 on: Dec 14th, 2005, 10:23pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Hi Paul .. as Highlander quite rightly says it's possible that the WOT relay is playing up but that's very unlikely ..more likely is that there is a natural inbuilt reluctance to floor the pedal whilst cranking over .. and we DO mean floor it !! ..even the carpet ruffled can prevent that extra bit required . .. I have actually told peope to do this before in fuel flooding conditions < which is what it's designed for > ..and for them to report that the car started .. after checking myself in front of them they reply " oh THAT far " ... so ... ie: FULL TO THE FLOOR HARD .. regards ....STN
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Highlander
Moderator
Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
|
|
Re: Chain rattle fixing
« Reply #19 on: Dec 14th, 2005, 10:34pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Dec 14th, 2005, 10:23pm, SaveTheNight wrote:| ie: FULL TO THE FLOOR HARD |
|
I also use this technique just as im about to be passed by a Golf GTI
|
|
IP Logged |
on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
|
|
|
|
|
Home
Help
Search
Members
Login
Reply
Send Topic
Print