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Topic: Rubbing front/rear doors (Read 942 times) |
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
  
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Rubbing front/rear doors
« on: Sep 20th, 2006, 6:54pm » |
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I searched back a while but couldn't find an answer to this one. On the later Scorpios (1996 onwards it seems), the front and rear doors rub, I've been looking at Scorpios in the past couple of weeks and every car but one has this problem. Mine are getting quite bad and I want to sort them before the winter, I can do the paint but is there a way to cure the rubbing problem?
Regards, Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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mr._floppy
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Posts: 100
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #1 on: Sep 20th, 2006, 7:26pm » |
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Rubbing on what ?
Not quite getting what you mean .
More info ?
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #2 on: Sep 20th, 2006, 8:13pm » |
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The edges of the front/rear doors rubbing and rusting 
I'll post a pic tomorrow if no one understands me 
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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hellblue
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Ill have silver,it dries just as fast !
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #3 on: Sep 20th, 2006, 9:04pm » |
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Please do, i have a 97 with no signs of any rubbing or rusting!!??
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Gary
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #4 on: Sep 20th, 2006, 9:48pm » |
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Wishing I hadn't started this now
I was looking at a '97 2.3 the other week and a '96 Cosworth yesterday (yes, I nearly bought a Cossie...) and they both had the rust. Its like the bottom pic here.
Just wondered if there is a way of making a fine adjustment to the front/rear door although looking at the hinges I think mabye not...
Yours in confusion, Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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hellblue
Full Member
Ill have silver,it dries just as fast !
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #5 on: Sep 20th, 2006, 10:03pm » |
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No i have none of that rust,this must start from opening door against something & chipping the paint,my old M plate escort had some though!
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Gary
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #6 on: Sep 21st, 2006, 12:47am » |
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Before I bought my present Scorp I looked at another '98, & that had the rust on the door edges at the trims, exactly like the picture. Couldn't see that it was rubbing on anything though, just assumed it had bad rust proofing.
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Simmo
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #7 on: Sep 21st, 2006, 5:59am » |
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Bruce, I think,as the link says, it is an inherent problem on some cars.I have a tiny mark on the front nearside door of my M reg estate in exactly the same place as shown in the Photos. There is no sign of the door rubbing and no doubt relates to the trim fitting.
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kev2scorps
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #8 on: Sep 21st, 2006, 7:56am » |
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Could also be due to the fact that the side impact bars in the doors are made from steel that rusts more easily, and the position of these just happens to coincide with these rust spots on the edges of the doors. I normally touch these up about once a year with some paint.
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mr._floppy
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #9 on: Sep 21st, 2006, 11:57am » |
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I've got it too, it's not serious, it's the area most likely to be scuffed when you open the door and it hits against a wall ( or another car !).
That's what those wee stone chip paint kits are for.
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #10 on: Sep 21st, 2006, 6:17pm » |
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Ok chaps, here's a pic of what I mean.
I've done a lot on the car over the past 2 years but this still remains. It was there when I bought the car and hasn't got much worse but if I neglect it much longer the doors will become a tin worm victim. It seems that the edge rusts/swells then starts to rub, ruining the paint. I rubbed the pass side back at the weekend but when I insert a sheet of paper, it still rubs
The way I see it there's 2 ways to stop it happening again:
- Adjust the doors finely so they don't rub when the rear is opened (not sure if this is poss)
- Remove some metal from the angle on the drivers door to make some clearence.
I've been told that this is a clearence problem and not a problem with the body alignment through damage, no other problems like this on the car.
Any help welcome
Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Simmo
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #11 on: Sep 21st, 2006, 8:12pm » |
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Bruce, This is far worse than mine and I suspect others. If there is actual contact then clearly there is an alignment problem. Could the door hinge pins be worn?.
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #12 on: Sep 21st, 2006, 8:47pm » |
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Well Simmo, I'm getting worried now 
Could be the pins but there's no movement in the doors. This problem stumps me, there are no other alignment problems on the car and it drives fine/square etc with no steering or tyre wear probs (I've done nearly 10k on the same tyres and a mm of tread), the HP/car checks came back clear and I've had some extensive work done and been told on a few occasions there are no problems/it's a good car etc... The car is in excellent condition apart form this, I'm foxed as to the cause.
It seems that the doors (both the same, no rust on the pass side) only rub on the very outside when the rear is opened while the front is shut tight. I'm starting to wonder through what I've been told over the last 2 years if something did happen to the car before I had it... There are some clues to work done on the rear wings but only some overspray beneath the seals, the rear wings match the rest perfectly, looks like an expensive job was paid for.
I had all the checks done but I remember when I took it to Fords the first time, they said something about an endorsment on the prev owners license, nothing for me to worry about etc., now I wonder...
The 2.3 Ghia I looked at the other week did have a similar problem though, I pointed it out to the owner and the '96 Cossie I saw had very bad door edges, no rubbing though admitted.
The car has been perfect for the last 2 years but I'm starting to think this may be worse than I expected...
Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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bertie
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #13 on: Sep 21st, 2006, 11:32pm » |
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Tib, no need to panic...as far as I know it is a common problem. I have repaired about 4 different scorps due to this problem. funny enough, I done more passenger sides than drivers... what I did was use a dead blow hammer on the front of the rear door hinge (in the closed position) not too hard to move it 2mm or so. Then rub down the lips of both doors to bare metal, rust treat and respray. Remember, only tickle the hinges.
It was certainly not accident damage on any the motors I repaired. I think this problem may grow as members start to look at the doors
simon
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #14 on: Sep 22nd, 2006, 5:25pm » |
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Thanks Simon, I feel much better now  What you say echos the first Ford tech who looked at it, 'oh, I see a lot like that, nothing to worry about'. Looking at the car, it seems like the rear doors could go back about 2mm, thats all it needs; they only touch the front doors at the edges, I guess once the initial rust comes and it swells, the problem gets much worse. Not sure if I'm brave enough to use the dead blow hammer but I'll see what I can do before Winter sets in
I can understand Simmo's point though, rubbing doors do seem to point to accident damage. I used to work at a scrappy and saw many writeoffs, mainly stolen recovereds; panels/wings chafing always reflected the crashed state of the shell.
Regard,s Bruce
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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scorpio_man
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Ford Kuga awd
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #15 on: Sep 22nd, 2006, 7:15pm » |
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hi there
that's my door on the site. it's been treated 3 times now, but still comes back. no rubbing of the doors, though.
i'm going to spray in some waxol one of these days.
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #16 on: Oct 15th, 2006, 5:59pm » |
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Update on the doors.
Sorted the rubbing today as Bertie said, found it easier (safer) to remove the rear doors completely and measure the distance from the pins to a mark on the front doors to get an idea of how far they were going. Covered the hinges in layers of masking tape and 'tickled' each one back just over a millimetre. Less than an hour later, doors refitted, everything fits square and I can now insert a thick piece of cartridge paper folded double and open the rear doors without anything rubbing, before this the paper got ripped.
Door lips rubbed down to bare metal and primed in case it rains, light fading too much by this time so had to call it a day. Found out why the driver's door had got so bad (picture I'd posted above), rubbed off layers of filler primer and cracked mastic which had been trapping water, somebody has been there before me. I'll post a couple of pics up in daylight.
Thanks everyone for the help/advice.
Regards, Bruce
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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clarkster
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Dear Santa, could I have a plasma cutter, please?
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #17 on: Oct 15th, 2006, 9:34pm » |
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yep my passenger door is like that but the drivers is fine? wierd!
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #18 on: Oct 16th, 2006, 6:42pm » |
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Both of mine were identical, rubbed by the same amount on the front doors. Spoke to a friend who owns a bodyshop and he said that he's seen the problem before, gets it sometimes on C Class Mercs apparently, down to the hinge clearence being set incorrectly in the factory.
Looks like they've been done a few times before, going by the amount of filler and rust trapped under the mastic in the edge seam on the drivers door, need to get them top coated and get the old car machine polished, Autoglymed and under cover for the winter now, I'm not a happy bunny at the thoughts of that 
Regards, Bruce
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Rubbing front/rear doors
« Reply #19 on: Oct 17th, 2006, 6:00pm » |
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Another update on the doors, got the pass side finished this afternoon, hope to get the drivers side finished tomorrow, time and weather permitting. scraped all the affected paint off, rubbed back to bare metal as far as I could, soaked it all in Kurust and gave it 2 coats of zinc primer. On with the Ford top coat and it's done, I'll cut it back at the weekend.
Regards, Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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