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Topic: Changing ring gear. (Read 3946 times) |
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cossieguy
Full Member
1996 Cosworth Ultima saloon
 
Posts: 550
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Changing ring gear.
« on: Oct 20th, 2006, 11:04am » |
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My car is very noisy on start up,have changed the starter motor but still noisy. Was told by mechanic that the ring gear had wear in its teeth. I know nothing about this ring gear but believe it's attached/part of the fly wheel? My question is can you easily/cheaply replace the ring gear or is it as always a nightmare?
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #1 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 11:15am » |
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24V Cossie I assume.
A gear box out job.
It's bolted to the crank & the torque converter is bolted to the other side.
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Dave
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cossieguy
Full Member
1996 Cosworth Ultima saloon
Posts: 550
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #2 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 11:20am » |
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Cheers Dave, once the gear box is out,i assume it's straight forward to do, any idea how much to replace the ring gear itself? Might have to wait till i've gotta good reason to drop the box!
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cossieguy
Full Member
1996 Cosworth Ultima saloon
Posts: 550
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #3 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 12:00pm » |
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Just a quickie is the ring gear also known as engine drive plate?
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #4 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 2:49pm » |
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Its not the timing chain rattling maybe?
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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cossieguy
Full Member
1996 Cosworth Ultima saloon
Posts: 550
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #5 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 3:20pm » |
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on Oct 20th, 2006, 2:49pm, Highlander wrote:| Its not the timing chain rattling maybe? |
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No, it's as the engine cranks it is very noisy,once engine has started it's as quiet as a mouse. The mechanic that changed the starter motor said the teeth on the ring gear had wear on them. Would this cause a noisy start? i assume the starter
uses these teeth to crank the engine.
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #6 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 3:59pm » |
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Timing chains turn while the engine cranks though 
If you put press the throttle right down so the engine wont fire does it do it then?
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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cossieguy
Full Member
1996 Cosworth Ultima saloon
Posts: 550
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #7 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 4:22pm » |
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on Oct 20th, 2006, 3:59pm, Highlander wrote:Timing chains turn while the engine cranks though
If you put press the throttle right down so the engine wont fire does it do it then? |
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I pressed the throttle down fully, turned her over heard the noisy bit then straight away engine started, revved to the max!!!
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cossieguy
Full Member
1996 Cosworth Ultima saloon
Posts: 550
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #8 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 4:25pm » |
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Just to assist, the noise is almost what i'd call a grinding noise, lasts about 1 second if that, engine starts no problems. It's not just me, everyone who hears it for the first time notices it straight away and comments on it. The chains have been done ie tensioners sorted, not by me but previous owner.
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #9 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 6:35pm » |
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its not supposed to do that 
If throttle is wide open it shouldn't fire up.
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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harry.m1byt
Full Member
What's YaBB?
Posts: 792
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #10 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 7:31pm » |
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on Oct 20th, 2006, 11:04am, cossieguy wrote:| My car is very noisy on start up,have changed the starter motor but still noisy. Was told by mechanic that the ring gear had wear in its teeth. I know nothing about this ring gear but believe it's attached/part of the fly wheel? My question is can you easily/cheaply replace the ring gear or is it as always a nightmare? |
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Wear on the motor pinion or ring gear is rare these days due to them all being pre-engaged types. Damage on one, will cause damage to the other.
The ring gear is a thin steel ring with teeth around its outer edge to match the starter. Changing it would involve clutch or engine out to gain access to the flywheel. The ring gear is shunk onto the outer lip of the flywheel.
Usual removal method is to split the ring by use of a large hammer and chisel. Fitting a new one is a matter of heating the ring in an oven to expand it and shrinking the flywheel by freezing it, which allows it to drop in place -probably easier/cheaper to just get one from the scrap yard.
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cossieguy
Full Member
1996 Cosworth Ultima saloon
Posts: 550
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #11 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 9:46pm » |
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Cheers Harry, great explanation
So you think it unlikely it's the ring gear, the starter motor I put on was a secondhand one, is it still possible it needs a new starter motor? Strange though that both would cause the same loud starting problem
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cossie_al
Full Member
Ex 24v
Posts: 902
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #12 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 10:16pm » |
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Guy,
If you remove the starter motor and have a look at the gear on it it sould be obvious if it is damaged or worn.
If it was in good condition before it was fitted and now is damaged chances are as Harry says the ring gear is damaged and has caused damage to the starter motor.
You can normaly tell if the ring gear is damaged by looking in the hole that the starter gear goes through.
If you cant get your head near enough to see through the hole try taking a few pics on a digital camera.
Beware of prodding your finger in the hole I have seen worn ring gears with burrs on like razors.
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cossieguy
Full Member
1996 Cosworth Ultima saloon
Posts: 550
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #13 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 10:23pm » |
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Cheers Al, i haven't removed the starter myself i assume it's easier with the car raised as it's so low in engine bay. Any tips or is it just a case of removing electrical connections then unbolting. Anyone like to give a guesstimate how much to replace the ring gear if done by none FMD?
Also whats the prognosis if i leave this and live with the loud starting? Will it eventually fail to start?
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cossie_al
Full Member
Ex 24v
Posts: 902
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #14 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 10:39pm » |
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If your going to do it yourself be sure to disconect the battery terminals first and USE GOOD AXLE STAND OR RAMPS before you get under the car.
It has been mentioned a few times on here about getting under a car supported by a jack alone, dont do it.
as for what a fmd would charge I wouldn't like to guess.
If the fault does lie with the starter pinion or ring gear eventualy one or the other will fail completely. As to how long it will take is anybodies guess.
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hellblue
Full Member
Ill have silver,it dries just as fast !
Posts: 210
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #15 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 11:05pm » |
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I would remove starter & look befor you think about taking the box out,whilst the starters out drop it in to your local lucas dealer they can test it for you.Turn engine by hand to check all the way round ring gear, i think you will also find that you cant just change the ring gear as with a flywheel (manual) as autos have flexplates & i think yours is a one piece job, someone on here will have one though if you end up needing one.
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Gary
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cossieguy
Full Member
1996 Cosworth Ultima saloon
Posts: 550
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #16 on: Oct 20th, 2006, 11:09pm » |
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Thanks gents certainly gives me a few things to check/go on. Will let you know of progress on this.
Guy
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harry.m1byt
Full Member
What's YaBB?
Posts: 792
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #17 on: Oct 21st, 2006, 10:20am » |
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on Oct 20th, 2006, 9:46pm, cossieguy wrote:Cheers Harry, great explanation
So you think it unlikely it's the ring gear, the starter motor I put on was a secondhand one, is it still possible it needs a new starter motor? Strange though that both would cause the same loud starting problem |
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I think you should look at the possibilty that both might be worn or damaged. As others have suggested, you need to look at both the wear on the pinion on the starter and the ring gear.
Teeth on the pinion should be uniform all the way round. Looking along one tooth it should be a uniform shape all the way along it, apart from a slight taper at the leading edge. The pinion should be free to slide along its shaft, against a light spring tension[1]. If the pinion sticks on the shaft, it is possible that this might cause grinding noises when it fails to engage fully. Pull the starter motor out and post some photos of the pinion so we can have a look.
With the starter removed, you should be able to see a small section of the ring gear. Again the teeth on this should be uniform both all the way around the flywheel and each tooth should be uniform along its length. Check all the way round the ring gear by removing the spark plugs and turning the engine slowly with a spanner on the end of the front pulley.
[1] It is a very long time since I last had trouble with a pre-engaged starter, so perhaps someone with more recent knowledge could confirm that it should slide?
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August '95 2.9 12v auto Ultima -
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cossieguy
Full Member
1996 Cosworth Ultima saloon
Posts: 550
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #18 on: Oct 21st, 2006, 10:48am » |
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Cheers, will have a look on Tuesday at work as i haven't got any axle stands or any safe method of raising car at home.
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cossieguy
Full Member
1996 Cosworth Ultima saloon
Posts: 550
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Re: Changing ring gear.
« Reply #19 on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 7:28pm » |
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Have seen a BOB 24V flywheel (Second hand) for sale, will this have the ring gear attached to it?
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