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ttt
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New here & my problem
« on: Nov 28th, 2006, 1:03am » |
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Hi everybody!
Let me introduce me first: My name ist Till. I'm writing from germany. I'm a owner of a 24V, built in 1995, really fine car - as long as it runs... Before anything else, i apologize for my bad english, i hope you will understand me. (If you'll reply, don't write too much slang, because then i'll don't understand you...)
I already got a lot of information from this site, very useful for a scorpio driver. There is nothing like this in germany. And that's the reason, why i'm here: In germany there is no one, who writes about doing some work on the engine and so on. It's my impression, that they're only able to fit some spoilers and so on...
However, here is my problem: I just experienced a "ballooned" radiator. On this site it is figured out, that the reason may be the thermostat. Mine is just one year old, so i'm not really interested in changing it again and getting the next ballooned radiator within another year.
My question: Does anyone have a picture or something like that, showing the coolant circulation on the 24V? Maybe it is possible to install a "normal" system without this weird three-way-thermostat (eg. the thermostat just fitted in one hose to the radiator).
I'd be pleased if someone could help me!
Greets, Till
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please excuse my bad english - I'm german...
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Baz
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S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #1 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 1:14am » |
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Hello Till and welcome to the site. (Where are you in Germany?)
The ballooned radiator is something I have suffered many of. My first car a 1998 model had 3 or 4 radiators and my current car (another 1998 model) is on its fourth radiator.
The problem is very much hit and miss as to when it happpens and the fact that the thermostat was suggested made me change mine after one failed a while back. The one I have in the car now was changed in May or June and is still holding out.
The cooling system on the 24v is pretty unique and as far as I know, no one has modified it with any success.
Save the Night (Bill) was working on some strengthened radiators made of alloy but it seems to have gone a little quiet at the moment.
The general concensus if you get a ballooned rad seems to be:
Change the rad
Change the thermostat
Change the expansion bottle cap
Bleed the system very carefully and try to eliminate all of the air from the system
Baz
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howiedintheplace
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Based near Evesham
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #2 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 1:28am » |
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Baz I think Tobbe may have figured it out.
The water pump is also a BOB special.
What they did was totaly remove a outlet on it not block it off like on the 12V & BOA.
The impellar is the same for all 3.
It appears the BOBs water pump is now too good & is creating pulse pressures based on revs that simply are way too high.
The water pump needs to be made less effective by modding the impellor.
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Dave
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Baz
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S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #3 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 1:31am » |
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And is this possible then? What do I have to do to the brand new spare one I took off a car in the scrappy and got charged a fiver for??
Baz
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howiedintheplace
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Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #4 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 1:36am » |
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Reduce the size of the impellar by a few mm but it needs to be done in stages & tested for pressure as you go. Then once the right size is figured out then thats the spec to copy.
Not sure if Tobbe got that far & I won't be playing with it till next year now 
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Dave
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ttt
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #5 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 1:39am » |
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Thanks for the quick answers - at this time. First, i live in the north of germany in Bremen. The whole story is as follows:
I bought the car with a leaking but not balloned radiator. The previous owner drilled a hole in the filler cap, preventing the system from establishing some pressure. First i fitted a new cap, then the radiator began pretty sparkling some water around... I fitted a used radiator. After a while it always took a long time that the coolant reached nomal temperature, so i changed the thermostat in august 05 and now, just one year later the radiator is ballooned. so what to do? Invest another several hundrets of euro to expect the same problem next year? That couldn't be the way... I'd like to have a look at the "water-circuit" and think if it can be changed to a "normal" system. Btw: the pump was also replaced on my car as i bought it.
Greets, Till
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please excuse my bad english - I'm german...
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Baz
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S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #6 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 1:52am » |
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Ah Bremen, home of the Kellogg factory!!
Is there anywhere you can get your current radiator re-cored Till? Maybe the radiator was already damaged to the point where pressurising the system correctly just made it fail completely?
I have fitted used radiators in the past and although they may look fine, only time will tell if they can hold out like a new or recored one
Baz
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ttt
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #7 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 2:06am » |
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Of course, Kelloggs Cornflakes, Beck's Beer and some Coffee too...
I think, the radiator was ok as it worked fine over 2 1/2 years. I still have the old one which was gone leak in between the aluminium and the plastic. I opened this assembly by bending the aluminium to look whats behind. Inside the plastic part there is a rubber seal. So I closed it again, bending the aluminium well over the plastic part and tested this with a pressure of three bar (air) It wasn't leaking. I'm looking forward now to fit this radiator again.
But now, I've got to go to bed.
Thx a lot, see you tomorrow!
Greets, Till
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twinturbo
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24V's Me game!
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #8 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 2:36pm » |
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How about getting rid of the pump altogether and investing £120-£150 in an electric pump.
TT
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ttt
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #9 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 10:16pm » |
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Hi again,
today I managed to fit the used radiator and a used thermostat as well, after I controlled its function on my kitchen stove ( mmmhh delicious: thermostat soup... ).
Unfortunately my battery got empty yesterday while towing the car back, this indicated to me that it is generally weak. Half an hour with parking lights on shouldn't drain the battery so much that the car does only "click-click" when turning the key to start.
So I charged the battery overnight and until the afternoon, but when I fitted it again, after turning the key, the needles in the dashboard turned funny around. That moment I also experienced some slight fizzing noise from the left (I think in england it's the right side) fuse box, like if some of the relays coldn't decide wether to switch on or off.
The starter did it's job quite well, not the fastest, but turning, but the engine didn't start. I think I'll have to go to Ford tomorrow and get a new battery.
What about electrical water pumps? Does anyone have some experience with something like that? I didn't even know that they exist - but I'm not really involvend in the latest car-technology... my Scorpio is eleven years old...
I'll let you hear, wether my reassembly works or not.
Greets from Bremen, Till
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twinturbo
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24V's Me game!
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #11 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 10:45pm » |
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Electric water pumps have been around for a few years coming over from motor sport. They are light and efficient and you can easily control the flow. In some cases you can get rid of the thermostat too.
You can adjust the flow so the engine can run cool, normal or hot for power or economy.
See http://www.thinkauto.com/
TT
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Simmo
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #12 on: Nov 29th, 2006, 8:18am » |
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Make sure you get the largest capacity battery you can. Read,THIS before you get one. The needles will allways 'flick round' after fitting a battery. Go to This page and scroll down to 'Electrical problems' and then find 'Needles flick round'.
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ttt
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #13 on: Nov 29th, 2006, 9:30pm » |
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Those electrical pumps are interesting, even though I think, they would only make sense, if the old pump's impeller is removed and the thermostat is moved out, too, replaced by some electrical control for the pump. I think this would mean to fit (more than one) thermal-transducers in the cylinder heads, directly where the water is heated. Upon their measurements the water pump revs should be "calculated".
For the 24V the bigger one of the pumps should be fitted, but there is written, that the motor has a lifespan of about 2000 hours - this may be not very much, of course depending on one's mileage per year.
About the electrical System: I'm not shure wether to buy a battery at FORD or somewhere else, however, it should be a big one, of course. In the past, I didn't experience any electrical gremlins at all, I think the first owner (living directly in Cologne) did a good job on the car to prevent it from some known problems eg. both fuse boxes are on their inside really "wet" with some oily don'tknowwhatitis but it prevents them well from corroding. So I'm definitely sure it's only the battery.
Thanks a lot so far.
Greets, Till
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hellblue
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Ill have silver,it dries just as fast !
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #14 on: Nov 29th, 2006, 10:14pm » |
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Make sure you put the battery cover back on if you dont have one get one!the 24v is not the only vehicle to have this fault with the radiator the 3ltr troopers ballon up thier radiators too! its a single core rad. but if you go to get a recore its listed replacment is a 2 core,does the ally get so hot it becomes softer & more sensative to pressure??
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Gary
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ttt
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #15 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 10:40pm » |
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Hi again!
What a "nice" afternoon. I decided to buy a battery from Ford. They charged me with some 120 Euro and the advice to notice the mileage (of course in km...) because if the battery would fail in three or four years, they'll ask about that.
So I mounted the new battery but when starting, I got exactly the same problems. I checked the voltage, showing me 12.3 Volts. So I tried to charge the battery, its voltage increased within 20 minutes to something about 15V. When disconnecting the charging device, the voltage decreased soon to 12.something. A closer examination on the "new battery" showed a 4804 stamp, I think this means the date of production. Harhar, really funny.
So I took it back to the dealer (the biggest in town) where they asserted, that the only second one they had, was of the same date... All other batteries of that capacity only had those round connectors. I asked for some clamps, but they said, if a clamp is broken, one has to buy a new loom. Harhar, really funny again.
Nevertheless, I got one of those batteries with the round connectors and buyed the clamps in another store. At is home again, I was sceptical, wether the "newest" battery was ok. A sticker showed 09.06 I hope this means Sept of this year. A measurement gave 12.6 V: Aaarrghh. Meanwhile it was later than 6pm, dealer closed. So I decided to eat something, fit the batt clamps and charge the battery. After that I tried the battery, which gave again the same results. Voltage controlled by instrument reset showed 12.4V. Now it's my last hope that I can get it charged overnight. If that fails, I don't know what to do... especially with this dealer.
I think, a new battery should show a voltage above 13.5V and can be directly fitted into the car, without any charging, or am I wrong there?
Lets see, what on tomorrow mornig...
Greets, Till
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harry.m1byt
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #16 on: Dec 1st, 2006, 3:27pm » |
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on Nov 30th, 2006, 10:40pm, ttt wrote:I think, a new battery should show a voltage above 13.5V and can be directly fitted into the car, without any charging, or am I wrong there?
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A good fully charged battery, off charge, with no load - should be around 12.5 to 12.8v. I would expect a new fresh off the shelf battery (one which has been stood a while) to be 12.25 to 12.5v. I would be concerned if it is below 12.25v as it comes out of the store.
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ttt
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Re: New here & my problem
« Reply #17 on: Dec 4th, 2006, 1:21pm » |
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So, it's me again. The second battery worked well after charging it over night. Maybe I forgot one of the thinner black cables on my first try with this battery.
So far at the moment - thanks for all the advice!
Greets, Till
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