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Topic: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut (Read 1964 times) |
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
 
Posts: 296
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #20 on: May 5th, 2008, 1:36pm » |
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Aaah Ghia-x,
I just realised I think when I told you the part no. for the donut I gave you the wrong one I just checked and it should be "93GG4684AA" for the auto. PLease pm me your address and I'll post back the manual donut.
Thanks
Mike
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ghia-x
Full Member
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Posts: 240
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #21 on: May 6th, 2008, 1:04am » |
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Hi. The splits/cracks WILL make a big difference & that will cause the rumble that you have been talking about.
I think that you will find that the part you now have is the replacement part.
As i've not been on here since my last log, I've just red the updates. The part that was send to you looks the exact same part, & not the old (renforced blade type), that ford has used for years.......
If you need to talk you have my number..... 
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #22 on: May 8th, 2008, 10:58am » |
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Hey Gozz,
I'm very interested to hear more about the "gearbox mounting" you mentioned.
I'm going to get a new flexible coupling (donut) shortly but, from what you say, I think it would be wise to replace the rubber cushion that supports the transmission at the same time.
Is it just one rubber bit? How do you do it? And do you have the part no.?
Thanks
Mike
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gozz
Senior Member
Been around awhile
Posts: 3475
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #23 on: May 9th, 2008, 12:21am » |
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Mike.
Put a jack under the gearbox with a piece of wood to spread the load.Remove the little crossmember complete with mounting(one nut in centre).Before doing this see if you can ascertain whether or not the doughnut is stressed by loosening it's bolts and checking the planes of gearbox and propshaft flanges in relation to on eanother.I dont remember the mounting number,however it is a popular part which was also fitted to the Granada.The rubber part sinks through the housing,thus causing stress to the doughnut,if you take yours to FMD for comparison(if they happen to have one in stock)the difference can readily be seen.
GOZZ
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #24 on: May 9th, 2008, 7:43am » |
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Thanks a lot Gozz, much appreciated.
Mike
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #25 on: May 17th, 2008, 1:27pm » |
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Gozz,
My new donut just arrived in the post so I'll be fitting it tomorrow hopefully.
Do you know which way round it goes? It says on it; "drive shaft side" but I'm not sure if this refers to the autobox output shaft or the propshaft, any ideas?
The other thing I've noticed is that the noise increases when I go round right hand turns (ie. weight increases to the left). Any idea what would cause that? I thought it was the wheel bearing on that side (left) at the front so I got it changed but although it was worn, it didn't stop the noise.
I'll do what you said to check the autobox suspension mount. I don't really want to replace it as it costs over £100.
Thanks again!
Mike
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gozz
Senior Member
Been around awhile
Posts: 3475
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #27 on: May 17th, 2008, 9:11pm » |
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Mike.
jonnycab to the rescue ! but what is the metal ring to which you refer JC ?
GOZZ.
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #28 on: May 17th, 2008, 10:37pm » |
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Thanks Jonnycab,
That is incredibly observant!
Will let you know how it goes.
Thanks again.
Mike
Ps I think the metal ring is to compress the rubber to enable the holes to line up. BUT, as someone pointed out, this only applies to the older versions - as proved by the fact that this brand new Ford part did NOT come with a ring.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #29 on: May 18th, 2008, 12:50am » |
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Gozz, the metal ring which I referred to & then deleted...because it obviously wasn't in the pics......is a chassis mounted ring that surrounds the doughnut.
It's not the metal ring that the compresses the doughnut so it can be fitted easily, it's a totally separate piece 
My old '95 2.0 Ghia Scorp had a strange noise when turning corners....a kind of clonking coming from the centre of the car.
I took it to the garage & they found that the chassis mounted metal doughnut surround ring had come loose. They removed it & that cured the problem
It's obvious that Mikes car doesn't have this ring & I don't have one on my 2.3 facelift....but some earlier scorps had it, as my old '95 did
Someone will know what I'm talking about hopefully, & will be along soon....
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ghia-x
Full Member
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Posts: 240
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #30 on: May 18th, 2008, 1:51am » |
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Hi Jonny. Re: the metal ring which I referred to & then deleted... Yes I know what your on about. At the from of the prop, ie:donut, on the old diesel models (& some frog eyed models) they had a steel ring fitted to the front of the prop flange, then the donut. This was fitted to cut down on excess noise transfered through the car via the prop.
ghia-x
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #31 on: May 18th, 2008, 4:34pm » |
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Ok, I just got through fitting the new donut (by the way, it's referred to as a "doughnut" in the Granada Haynes manual - I just noticed, I got the spelling wrong - lol!)
Well, the old one was pretty well split but the news is that the noise/vibration is just the same, which is a little disappointing.
I tried what you suggested Gozz (about watching for a mismatch between the planes of the auto-box output shaft and the propshaft when loosening the donut bolts) but there was nothing obvious.
However, with everything in place I found I could get around 1/4 inch movement (up and down and side to side) out of the autobox output/donut simply by pushing it by hand. Do you think this sounds normal or does it indicate a worn autobox suspension mount rubber?
THanks
Mike
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gozz
Senior Member
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Posts: 3475
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #32 on: May 18th, 2008, 7:18pm » |
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Mike.
It is a flexible mounting,and you can waggle it around a bit,what exactly is the sound,are your engine mounts OK ?
GOZZ.
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #33 on: May 18th, 2008, 8:35pm » |
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It sounded a bit like a wheel bearing with a bit of rumble thrown in for good measure.
You can feel the vibration through the pedals and the seat but NOT through the steering wheel.
What made me think of the wheel bearing was the fact that it increased noticably when turning to the right.
It starts at 15-20mph, really resonates between 30 & 40mph and fades into the background noise over 55mph. The low speed noise is particularly noticable when slowing down as the engine is idling.
I can't think what would make this noise/vibration at such low speeds, does anyone have any ideas?
Mike
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gozz
Senior Member
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Posts: 3475
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #34 on: May 18th, 2008, 11:03pm » |
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Mike.
Is there any possibility it could be the diff ? If you put it on blocks under the trailing arms so that it is secure and just clear of the ground,then run it in gear you can hear or feel any undue roughness.
GOZZ.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #35 on: May 19th, 2008, 12:04am » |
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What about a bad tyre ?.....Can sometimes be the cause of rumbling, especially at a certain speed
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #36 on: May 19th, 2008, 9:47am » |
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These are good suggestions, thank you.
About the tyre noise, it sounds like that - a worn unbalanced tyre at 50 - 60 mph - but mine makes that noise at 15 - 20 mph so I don't suspect a tyre; anyway, I have renewed all the tyres since it started and there's no difference.
About the diff. Firstly the noise/vibration definitely feels like it's coming from the middle/front.
Next, I had a good long run this morning (the first since I fitted the donut, apart from a very short test drive yesterday) and, although the problem is still there, it seems to have changed a bit. It's quieter at the 30 - 40mph range and noisier at 50mph and above.
I'm encourage to believe that I'm looking in the right place. What I now hypothesise is that (as Gozz suggested) the suspension mounting has decayed (11 years and 300,000+ miles) and the transmission has dropped slightly and wiggles about far too freely. (yes I know it should have some movement, under pressure, but not that much and so easily).
One result, which I've seen, is that the donut has become split through the constant bending caused by the mis-aligned shafts twisting it as it rotates.
What I can't see (but now imagine that I'm hearing and feeling) is the damage done by the pressure these mis-aligned shafts are placing on the auto-box output shaft bearings - I assume they have bearings.
Does that make sense?
What I intend to do is take up your suggestion Gozz, to raise the rear wheels and run them with the engine, and, a) listen to the diff, as you suggest, but also b) watch/film the propshaft/ autobox to see if there is any suspicious movement/shaking.
Will let you know how I get on.
Thanks again for all your input.
Mike
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: 2.3 Petrol - propshaft donut
« Reply #37 on: May 19th, 2008, 3:20pm » |
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Ok, I had a bit of time spare today and the weather was nice so I got the back arms up on wood blocks as suggested to run the drive train whilst stationary.
I set up the video camera and a light underneath and got excellent footage of both the donut and the diff.
Both films show that there absolutely no movement in any plane on either the donut or the diff. The focus and resolution is so sharp that any movement or vibration would be visible.
Because of the lack of road noise etc. I was able to hear and feel the problem vibrations much more clearly. Also, I'd mention that the problem remains exactly the same when stationary so a lot of things are ruled out.
I think that the conclusion has to be that the source of the vibration/noise is somewhere inside the autobox; that's certainly where is feels and sounds like it's coming from. As I said before, it's a bit like a continuous but very gentle "cattle grid" effect with various resonant frequencies combined with a very worn wheel bearing noise.
As soon as I get the chance I'll take it to an autobox specialist just to confirm it and see if there's any point in doing any work on it. But, apart from that, I guess I'll try to drive around it.
Thanks
Mike
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