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Topic: Self levelling suspension (Read 3400 times) |
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tlundkvi
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Ex. Scorpio 2.9 24V -95
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Self levelling suspension
« on: Nov 26th, 2008, 2:03pm » |
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Hi all,
How can one tell 100% certain whether a scorpio has a self-levelling suspension or not? The car has light adjustment, but I believe it doesn't rule it out either. Is there a button somewhere? Mine is a sedan, so it may or may not have it. I think something is broken in it, so I can't do the load test either.
In addition to the shock absorbers, surrounded by a spring, there is another thing in the rear end that looks like a thick gas feather (looks quite similar to the ones in the trunk, only 5cm thick) with a wire in it, does it mean it has? Does anyone have a link to some pictures of the 24V with and without the levelling installed?
Grateful for help on this!
Torbjörn
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scorpio_man
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Ford Kuga awd
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #1 on: Nov 26th, 2008, 4:11pm » |
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hi there
this is the self levelling shocker. we've never seen any UK saloon fitted with them, although we believe it was an option.
the granada UK estate (scorpio Mk1)(and some scorpio 'specials') had a compressor in the inner front wing and pumped the rear shocker with air.
hth
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gozz
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #2 on: Nov 26th, 2008, 9:21pm » |
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tlundkvi.
The estate has self levellers like those in scorpio_man's picture,they are inside the road springs.Some saloons had pneumatic automatic self levelling as scorpio_man says,these had a compressor behind the front bumper on the left hand side,and shock absorbers with air bags around the lower half of them,the ride hight is controlled by a load sensing switch above the right hand rear suspension arm,connected by a rod.All these. parts are easy enough to see if your car has them.
GOZZ.
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tlundkvi
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Ex. Scorpio 2.9 24V -95
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #3 on: Nov 27th, 2008, 8:10am » |
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on Nov 26th, 2008, 9:21pm, gozz wrote:tlundkvi.
The estate has self levellers like those in scorpio_man's picture,they are inside the road springs.Some saloons had pneumatic automatic self levelling as scorpio_man says,these had a compressor behind the front bumper on the left hand side,and shock absorbers with air bags around the lower half of them,the ride hight is controlled by a load sensing switch above the right hand rear suspension arm,connected by a rod.All these. parts are easy enough to see if your car has them.
GOZZ. |
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Hi,
You mean some sort of balloons at the bottom? According to some of the diagrams, the naked black thingy with the wires are the absorbers (in sloping angle, maybe 30 degrees), but inside the springs there are some yellow shock absorber-like constructions, lying in a "cup" at the bottom on the axle, but the absorber is loose at the bottom (the bottom is flat, and the cup in the axle has a screw hole or similar in the middle). Had a chance to look closer while I was changing winter tyres, should have run after the camera, but didn't think of it then. To me, it looks like there is 4 shockers in the rear. Does the standard saloon have those balloons too? Does anybody have a clue of the cost of repairing it (parts price)?
Torbjörn
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gozz
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #4 on: Nov 27th, 2008, 10:08am » |
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tlundkvi.
No the standard saloon has plain shockers under the wheelarches.If you really want to beef it up properly,get a set of Monroe load levellers,the kit number is LA355 and contains a Schrader valve,pipes and gauge which you can fit in the boot.
GOZZ
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tlundkvi
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Ex. Scorpio 2.9 24V -95
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #5 on: Nov 27th, 2008, 10:39am » |
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on Nov 26th, 2008, 4:11pm, scorpio_man wrote:hi there
this is the self levelling shocker. we've never seen any UK saloon fitted with them, although we believe it was an option.
the granada UK estate (scorpio Mk1)(and some scorpio 'specials') had a compressor in the inner front wing and pumped the rear shocker with air.
hth |
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On the picture, which way is up? For me it looks like the bolt is down (the cup has a hole). How should the normal one look like?
Torbjörn
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scorpio_man
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Ford Kuga awd
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #6 on: Nov 27th, 2008, 12:08pm » |
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hi there
the bolt end is the top, the 'hole' is for the bottom bush/bar that bolts through the wishbone.
on a saloon, the bottom of the shocker bolts on to the side of the wishbone.
btw, the yellow rubber thing is the bump stop.
hth
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tlundkvi
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Ex. Scorpio 2.9 24V -95
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #7 on: Nov 27th, 2008, 1:30pm » |
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http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/suspension/RearRSpring.pdf
On page 2 there is a ball joint inside the spring, how does this all relate? For me it looks like the balls are the ones missing on my car, making the car seem an 1-1.5 inch lower at the back. Are they solid rubber, hollow rubber or metal? Naked metal is underneath it as well, should there in this case be some rubber to seat the ball joint? I'll try to remove a wheel to take a photo of the situation. I think I've seen a photo of the whole deal somewhere how it should look like, but can't find it anymore.
Here http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/suspension/RAxleShockAbs.pdf it seems the shock absorber is outside the spring.
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scorpio_man
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Ford Kuga awd
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #8 on: Nov 27th, 2008, 3:01pm » |
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hi there
remember that the .pdf files are just drawings. that's not to say that what the car has.
anyway, take a photo of your setup, but i'm pretty sure you don't have s/l suspension.
hth
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tlundkvi
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Ex. Scorpio 2.9 24V -95
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #9 on: Nov 28th, 2008, 7:13am » |
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Hi,
If self levelling is not there, assuming the setup is the "ball" inside the springs lying on a rubber cup, and shockers on the outside, fixing it should not be an expensive operation then, should it?
I'll post a photo in the weekend when I'll have more time.
Torbjörn
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gozz
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #10 on: Nov 28th, 2008, 9:02am » |
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tlundkvi.
There was a spring assister available called"Autoballans"which was a plastic or rubber ball which was inflated after insertion inside the roadspring,I believe it had a small inflator valve in it.Could this be what yours has ? If it is,theoretically your car should not drop too low when loaded if the balls are inflated.
GOZZ
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tlundkvi
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #11 on: Nov 28th, 2008, 9:44am » |
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on Nov 28th, 2008, 9:02am, gozz wrote:tlundkvi.
There was a spring assister available called"Autoballans"which was a plastic or rubber ball which was inflated after insertion inside the roadspring,I believe it had a small inflator valve in it.Could this be what yours has ? If it is,theoretically your car should not drop too low when loaded if the balls are inflated.
GOZZ |
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This sounds logical, but I still think everything there is original. My setup looks very similar as the page describing rear wheelhub repair on scorpio site (a shame there is no picture from the other angle). There are no balls there, just a flat bottom of something looking like a shocker for a layman. With the balls not there and 225/50R16 (12-spoke originals), with load within allowed bounds, it was a question of millimeters for the wheel to rotate freely. After reorganizing the load a bit, I got some more clearance in the back. Luckily, no wear marks on the tires and no bad handling except for sharper curves.
Believe the "accident" happened when I was coming up from a deep garage ramp just while getting on the road and the car bumped in an awkward angle. Now with normal load the car handles well, no problems in the handling. I also have narrower tires (205/65R15 on 6x15 ET 49) now. Only problem is it needs to be road inspected in Finland before import and I assume this can cause rejection until repaired.
Torbjörn
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tlundkvi
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Ex. Scorpio 2.9 24V -95
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #12 on: Jan 30th, 2009, 8:01am » |
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on Nov 26th, 2008, 9:21pm, gozz wrote:tlundkvi.
The estate has self levellers like those in scorpio_man's picture,they are inside the road springs.Some saloons had pneumatic automatic self levelling as scorpio_man says,these had a compressor behind the front bumper on the left hand side,and shock absorbers with air bags around the lower half of them,the ride hight is controlled by a load sensing switch above the right hand rear suspension arm,connected by a rod.All these. parts are easy enough to see if your car has them.
GOZZ. |
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Hate to revive this topic, my 24V sedan has exactly what Gozz describes, air controlled self levelling. There is no or little air in the shockers. The compressor does not run anymore, probably when the car was loaded and bumped on a garage ramp, a valve or something broke, causing the compressor to run all the time, probably killing it (or the compressor was dead all the time and the impact made the air that was left to escape). Fuses are checked. A US-car specialist garage suggested cutting the air hose and fitting a vent, and inflating them (self levelling is not that important to me), Ford garage suggested if this doesn't work (the impact destroyed the shocker), the standard gas shockers will fit in their place. Either way, self-levelling is lost, but fixing it will not make a huge hole in the wallet. Went btw unnoticed by the MOT.
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gozz
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #13 on: Jan 30th, 2009, 9:48am » |
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tlundkvi.
Self levelling is not part of the test as long as the shockers are doing their work ie controlling bounce.The system is a source of trouble,and always needs attention.If you put a feed to the compressor behind the front bumper making sure it is earthed,it should run.There is a dump valve in it which lets air out when the car is unloaded,that can leak,I even had one with a broken crank pin on the big end of the con rod.As the US specialist says,it is a simple matter to lead the pipes into the boot,where you can fit a gauge and valve to inflate it when needed,you can use a bicycle tyre pump.When you buy the Monroe replacement kit these parts are included.If you need them I have some spare because I only use the shockers.
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tlundkvi
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Ex. Scorpio 2.9 24V -95
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #14 on: Feb 4th, 2009, 7:38am » |
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Well now that I've paid more attention to it, there is a noticeable vibration from the front and left felt and heard. Always thought it was some sort of injection related. But it starts around a minute after starting, and lasts for 10-15 seconds. Never again during the trip. And ride height is quite low, it looks like a lowered car. Should the compressor run also on idle (i.e. to observe it better)? The valve on the compressor, is it easy to replace it if it's broken (also to get hold of)? Are there individual valves for both sides?
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gozz
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #15 on: Feb 4th, 2009, 9:26am » |
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tlundkvi.
The compressor is controlled by a load sensing switch attached to the R/H rear suspension arm,it has a delay on it to prevent overactivation of the system when negotiating uneven surfaces,a little brown relay,20 in the aux fuse box powers the compressor.The valves are in the compressor which should be removed to look at them.If you remove the power lead from the compressor and connect a live feed direct you can operate the system and check for leaks in the pipework and air shocks,without the engine running you can hear better.Normally the engine must be running for the compressor to work,but only the ignition key needs to be turned on to deflate the system.If you remove the air outlet pipe from the compressor whilst it is running you will see whether or not it is actually pumping air,or there could be a problem in the unit.
GOZZ.
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tlundkvi
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Ex. Scorpio 2.9 24V -95
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #16 on: Feb 23rd, 2009, 11:23am » |
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I took the car for service. The shockers don't hold air, so I decided to swap them for normals gas ones to keep further worries away. The ride height didn't change much although the old shockers were empty. Are the road springs different (softer?) on the self-leveled sedan, than the ones with normal gas shockers?
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gozz
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Re: Self levelling suspension
« Reply #17 on: Feb 23rd, 2009, 4:21pm » |
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No
GOZZ.
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