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Topic: gudgeon pin? (Read 1060 times) |
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sierra3dr
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gudgeon pin?
« on: Oct 28th, 2009, 10:33am » |
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Hi gang,
as I am aiming to supercharge a 2.3er,the needed compression reduction will be required. So,I am contemplating to putting in dished pistons. Do I have it correct,in the Engine Data 2.3 that the gudgeon pin is 20,589 - 20,609mm (Bore diameter, small end)?
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Scorpio_Mike
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Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 & 2.8 Sierra XR4i 4x4
Posts: 2354
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Re: gudgeon pin?
« Reply #1 on: Oct 28th, 2009, 10:42am » |
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You can reduce the CR by having the tops of the pistons machined - this is what I did when I turbo'd an XR3 many moons ago.
Much cheaper than a new set of pistons 
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Sierra XR4i's are great...especially when fitted with 4WD
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sierra3dr
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Re: gudgeon pin?
« Reply #2 on: Oct 29th, 2009, 12:21am » |
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ooo...thanks Mike,I like the sound of that. But,when you say machined,you do mean a dish is created in the pistons,and not skimmed?
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Matt
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Manual'd and a 4.0 in the making
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Re: gudgeon pin?
« Reply #3 on: Oct 29th, 2009, 9:44am » |
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both can be done but old school method mike is talking about it just slicing off the top of the piston (skimming not dishing). another cheep way of doing it is have a thicker headgasket made, but you need to watch the timing chain then!
you may need to look at upping the injectors, not sure the 2.3 will flow enough
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Scorpio_Mike
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Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 & 2.8 Sierra XR4i 4x4
Posts: 2354
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Re: gudgeon pin?
« Reply #4 on: Oct 29th, 2009, 10:48pm » |
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Yes, skimming is what I meant ! Turboing my XR3 was my 1984 summer holiday project 
From memory - this is 25yrs ago - I only had to get a few thou taken off each piston crown.
I will try to find the turbo kit installation manual - think it is in the attic. The spec for the piston machining is somewhere in the manual.
I recall it involved using a depth gauge micrometer to measure the piston heights at TDC so had to be done with the pistons & crank still in the block - which me and a mate put in his car boot and we took it to the local FMD to borrow the tool 
Having taken the measurements the pistons were removed and taken to a local machine shop for skimming. Collect pistons and reassemble. Simples.
Each cylinder should then have the same CR & swept volume.
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sierra3dr
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Re: gudgeon pin?
« Reply #5 on: Oct 30th, 2009, 1:22am » |
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on Oct 29th, 2009, 9:44am, Matt wrote:| both can be done but old school method mike is talking about it just slicing off the top of the piston (skimming not dishing). another cheep way of doing it is have a thicker headgasket made, but you need to watch the timing chain then! |
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Due to such methods,equivalent to decompression plates,it rids the squish area
The most important thing when
trying to change the compression
ratio is to try and keep the
designed squish area correct. The
squish area exists between the
piston’s upper/outer edges and
the cylinder head when the piston
is positioned at exactly top dead
centre. This section is designed
to squeeze the mixture towards
the centre of the combustion
chamber as the piston reaches
the top of its stroke. This creates a
nice mixture swirl that distributes
the fuel evenly throughout
the combustion chamber and
lessens the risk of pockets of fuel
forming around the outer edges
of the cylinder, which can lead to
inefficiency and, in worst cases,
detonation due to heat.
Squish effect is the main
reason a decompression plate is
accepted as the worst possible
way to adjust the compression
ratio. By its very nature it will
increase the gap between the
piston crown and the head, and
decrease or totally eradicate the
squish band, not to mention
the extra sealing face it
introduces (plate to block),
which gives another area of
potential compromise.
on Oct 29th, 2009, 9:44am, Matt wrote:| you may need to look at upping the injectors, not sure the 2.3 will flow enough |
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now that's interesting,thanks
on Oct 29th, 2009, 10:48pm, Scorpio_Mike wrote:| Each cylinder should then have the same CR & swept volume. |
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I'm aiming for the >hybrid 8v+2.3 block setup< with a supercharger
Looking at the formula
573.76 + 58.38 ÷ 58.38= 10.83 ,I've established that to obtain a 7:10.1 for a SC/turbo application,I would need to add 35.62 cubic centimeter to 58.38.
The 35.62 would come from a dished piston hopefully
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Matt
Senior Member
Manual'd and a 4.0 in the making
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Re: gudgeon pin?
« Reply #6 on: Oct 30th, 2009, 11:11am » |
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interesting project 
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sierra3dr
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Re: gudgeon pin?
« Reply #7 on: Oct 31st, 2009, 12:34am » |
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Oh I,what's the big grin for? Does the 8v+2.3 block appear daft?
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pinto
Full Member
TD04 on a galaxy manifold ? whooooooosh !
Posts: 474
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Re: gudgeon pin?
« Reply #8 on: Oct 31st, 2009, 8:50am » |
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If you're going to supercharge a 2.3, you're best off sticking to the standard 16v head anyway - it had the lowest CR of the whole I4 DOHC family (including the 8v)
Standard pistons on the 2.3 are dished already.
Unless you're planing to run more than 0.75 bar (10psi) then the stock twinky will take that anyway - just make sure you keep the fueling nice and rich on boost
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sierra3dr
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Re: gudgeon pin?
« Reply #9 on: Oct 31st, 2009, 11:15am » |
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hello Jeff,thanks for that. The head I have sold,due to the PATS problem. So the 2.3 pistons are dished already,I should have known that the block is upside down at the moment.
Neil is running his twinky in double figures @7.10:1,so I'm aiming for that region
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pinto
Full Member
TD04 on a galaxy manifold ? whooooooosh !
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Re: gudgeon pin?
« Reply #10 on: Oct 31st, 2009, 4:55pm » |
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I should think you are steve lol - do you have any idea how much money neil has plowed into that car over the years ? think concours cossie, several times over
The pistons he had custom made by JE in the states IIRC - cost £200 each ? mind you, this does let him run up to 28psi of boost
Unless you plan on big, big money here, you'll never get the 7.1 CR without a decompressor plate. You need to speak to Ferriday Engineering, who can laser cut you a nice copper or alloy one
http://www.ferriday.co.uk/cnc/decompression_plates.shtml
Bear in mind what they say about vernier pulleys tho - they certainly wont be available for the 8v twinky head you're using.
Next up, how are you going to cope with the fueling issues of using an EEC IV ? it has no concept of boost and no lamda to help out, so you'll be looking at agricultural (using a boost switch/5th injector) or probably much more sensible, running the whole shebang on an emerald ECU... in which case you might as well kept the 16v head lol
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sierra3dr
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Re: gudgeon pin?
« Reply #11 on: Nov 1st, 2009, 8:13am » |
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on Oct 31st, 2009, 4:55pm, pinto wrote:| do you have any idea how much money neil has plowed into that car over the years ? think concours cossie, several times over |
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Good god!!!
on Oct 31st, 2009, 4:55pm, pinto wrote:| The pistons he had custom made by JE in the states IIRC - cost £200 each ? mind you, this does let him run up to 28psi of boost |
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Well,probably not that extreme. The pistons in the 2.3 block are flat,from a Galaxy.
Federal-Mogul sell dished pistons,but the gudgeon pin diameter are too large on most
on Oct 31st, 2009, 4:55pm, pinto wrote:
Not the direction I prefer,perhaps other Ford pistons might work
on Oct 31st, 2009, 4:55pm, pinto wrote:Bear in mind what they say about vernier pulleys tho - they certainly wont be available for the 8v twinky head you're using.
[quote author=pinto link=board=Advice;num=1256726014;start=0#10 date=10/31/09 at 16:55:04]Next up, how are you going to cope with the fueling issues of using an EEC IV ? it has no concept of boost and no lamda to help out, so you'll be looking at agricultural (using a boost switch/5th injector) or probably much more sensible, running the whole shebang on an emerald ECU... |
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Yeh,I was enquiring on FSOC whether the EEC-IV maps can be opened with the necessary software,like MJLJ. Lambda is already there.
on Oct 31st, 2009, 4:55pm, pinto wrote:| in which case you might as well kept the 16v head lol |
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Oh well,I'll improvise with what I have
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pinto
Full Member
TD04 on a galaxy manifold ? whooooooosh !
Posts: 474
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Re: gudgeon pin?
« Reply #12 on: Nov 1st, 2009, 9:41pm » |
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Well, if you wont run the decompressor plate, the only option left is to have the combustion bowls machined in the head to increase the cc of each (usually a trick used for v6 engines which cant be made to work easily with decompression plate)
Ferriday can do that too
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sierra3dr
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Re: gudgeon pin?
« Reply #13 on: Nov 2nd, 2009, 6:19am » |
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on Nov 1st, 2009, 9:41pm, pinto wrote:Well, if you wont run the decompressor plate, the only option left is to have the combustion bowls machined in the head to increase the cc of each (usually a trick used for v6 engines which cant be made to work easily with decompression plate)
Ferriday can do that too |
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That's interesting,thanks Jeff
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