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Topic: flushing matrix (Read 1105 times) |
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pedropedro
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Posts: 677
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flushing matrix
« on: Mar 9th, 2010, 8:52am » |
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I was going to try disconnecting hoses at stat and pump and connecting to an external 12v pump (bilge pump) returning to a bucket with forte flush fluid with a return back to matrix. A loop so junk would fall to bottom of bucket ...would use a variable 12v supply to vary pressure etc
Am I wasting my time ? is there a chance matrix might perforate..nothing much to lose think maybe x1 coil open some heat but only at 2000rpm any feedback appreciated.. John
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #1 on: Mar 9th, 2010, 9:10am » |
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It never hurts to try 
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Malcolm73
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Posts: 137
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #2 on: Mar 9th, 2010, 8:03pm » |
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Hello Pedropedro,
My car is a 24v Ultima
I have done all that you are proposing. I excluded the engine and radiator and flushed the matrix directly through the two matrix tail pipes behind the engine
Elsewhere I have reported the exercise and the outcome.
Initially I believed the work had been a success with extremely hot air but this lasted only a few weeks.
A blocked matrix is a blocked matrix and nothing will remove the plastic deposits which are blocking the finned aluminium heat exchanger tubing.
Malcolm73
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pedropedro
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Posts: 677
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #3 on: Mar 9th, 2010, 8:19pm » |
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Hi
did you use a flushing agent eg forte system flush?
I plan to circulate that for 30 mins and it needs be hot to do the business
I dont think plain water will do anything to speak of other than unclog loose debris on one or two coils but a solution designed to reomove the sludge might work?
john
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a900one
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A scorpio is for life not just for christmas
Posts: 980
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #4 on: Mar 10th, 2010, 6:48pm » |
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Is that a central heating cleaner or one for a car.
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pedropedro
Full Member
Posts: 677
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #5 on: Mar 10th, 2010, 7:00pm » |
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forte system flush
specifically for cars..not an acid it is 7ph.. neutral so cannot attack metals
they also do a conditioner to leave in system to inhibit rust ...build up of junk ..removes oxygen the main culprit behind corrosion
john
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a900one
Full Member
A scorpio is for life not just for christmas
Posts: 980
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #6 on: Mar 10th, 2010, 8:30pm » |
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50/50 of water and antifreeze is the best way to stop rust in the system, but needs to be changed every 2 to 3 years.
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pedropedro
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Posts: 677
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #7 on: Mar 11th, 2010, 6:09pm » |
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Maybe of interest,,,Aaron radiators do a matrix for £60 but the relevant issue is the coils dont have the dreaded plastic spirals
so for anyone doing the exchange worth considering
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Malcolm73
Full Member
Posts: 137
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #8 on: Mar 11th, 2010, 8:25pm » |
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Pedropedro,
Hello John,
My first attempt at cleaning the heater matrix was done by using Forte radiator flush which was introduced to the system through the header tank, as per Forte instructions.
There was a short lived slight improvement in heater output.
My next effort was to use pieces of garden hosepipe, domestic 15 mm copper pipe, and a small pump from Machine Mart, designed to be driven by an electric drill.
The pipe work was connected directly to the heater matrix in/out tailpipes behind the engine. Two1 kilowatt 240 volt electric fire bars against the 15mm copper pipe work heated the flushing liquids. A bucket acted as a reservoir and the pump was powered from the three jaw chuck of my lathe
I used a two part radiator flushing kit at high concentration and the rotation of the pump was periodically reversed.
The first flushing agent darkened slightly but insignificant solid material was removed. The second bottle of flushing agent removed no solids and did not change colour.
The matrix was flushed for about 45 minutes and fluids came out of the 15mm copper pipe into the bucket as fast as if the hose was connected to a domestic cold water tap.
When the car was restarted the car heater was apparently restored and measured emerging air temperature (From memory) was in the 70C range, however within a few weeks the heater was failing.
The matrix had apparently not blocked with corrosion or similar products but with disintegrating plastic spirals which were originally inserted into the finned aluminium tubes during manufacture.
How was I able to pump liquid freely through the matrix? I have no answer but the reverse power flushing may have temporarily moved the loose plastic to the original free flowing position.
I cut the old matrix apart and every tube was firmly filled with plastic debris. A steel rod could not be pushed through the tubes.
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pedropedro
Full Member
Posts: 677
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #9 on: Mar 11th, 2010, 10:00pm » |
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Hi Malcolm
I cant believe you did exactly what i had in mind.. !
I have concluded the spirals are the culprit and once dislodged would lose their vortex qualitites if thats what was their object was ..cant believe they were there to limit the flow..once broken there could be a loss of flow if the spirals were fighting each other.....thats why i was interested in the aaron rad with no spirals
So i guess wasting my time...just hard to face the replacement route ...maybe for the sake of a morning i will try ..not a great deal to lose!
rgds John
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Pegasus
Full Member
24V Cosworth Ultima Born: Sept 97, sold Aug 23
Posts: 742
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #10 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 6:52pm » |
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Hi
just done mine today after matrix flow became restricted a month ago (just mildy warm air coming through).
I drained system, flushed rad out with hose (no rust) then put the 2yr old 50/50 Comma XStreem green back in with the flush fluid.
Used Forte coolant flush - the bottle says leave it running for 20-30 mins after reaching normal temp + have heater on Hi.
After 25 mins the air from heater was cold, even though I'd been running at 2000 rpm for 30secs 2-3 times. Then suddenly I had hot air and the return pipe was hot. Drained and flushed system twice with tap water and flushed out rad again (no rust). I suppose by the time I drained the flush mix an hour had passed.
When doing the flush I hooked up the return pipe to a clear tube and ran it into a bottle (aka the JonnyCab method) and when I revved up saw v fine rust particles that ended up in the bottle. Quite a bit of rust even though I've always used a good coolant with rust inhibitor.
Also worth noting - when I stripped out another Cossie I noticed that the water pump had a brown sludge that seemed to have solidified as it cooled  - could be similar to cholesterol blocking up our tubes with well known consequences.
Replaced coolant with 50/50 coolant + bottle of Forte coolant conditioner.
Hopefully it'll stay clear. But plan to repeat the whole thing again at next coolant change just to be safe.
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pedropedro
Full Member
Posts: 677
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #11 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 7:14pm » |
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thats useful to know.......maybe i will try that rather than disconnecting pipes to matrix ...easier option I guess
whats the easiest way to drain system ?? remove lower cover and undo rad drain ?
rgds John
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Pegasus
Full Member
24V Cosworth Ultima Born: Sept 97, sold Aug 23
Posts: 742
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #12 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 7:21pm » |
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on Mar 12th, 2010, 7:14pm, pedropedro wrote:
whats the easiest way to drain system ?? remove lower cover and undo rad drain ?
rgds John |
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that's it John. Also removed top and bottom hoses to flush out rad but doesn't appear to have made any difference in my case - fairly easy to do though.
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pedropedro
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Posts: 677
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #13 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 7:50pm » |
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tks for that
also did you remove the thermostat and clean as per the forte instructions
tks john
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Pegasus
Full Member
24V Cosworth Ultima Born: Sept 97, sold Aug 23
Posts: 742
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #14 on: Mar 13th, 2010, 8:13pm » |
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on Mar 12th, 2010, 7:50pm, pedropedro wrote:
also did you remove the thermostat and clean as per the forte instructions
tks john |
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?? instructions ?? nope didn't do that
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pedropedro
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Posts: 677
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #15 on: Mar 13th, 2010, 9:12pm » |
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sorry not instructions ..the "directions for use" label on the bottle
it says "remove stat and thoroughly clean in water"...guy at forte I called also said should be done ...not sure why as a flush through with plain water achieves same thing? anyway thought I would ask
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Tekno
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Tenho Ruohoranta
Posts: 599
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Re: flushing matrix
« Reply #16 on: Mar 15th, 2010, 4:07am » |
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on Mar 13th, 2010, 9:12pm, pedropedro wrote:| not sure why as a flush through with plain water achieves same thing? anyway thought I would ask |
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it doesn't. coolant cleaning fluids contain acids, maybe citric acid and propably tensids.
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1998 Ford Scorpio Ultima Estate 2.3i 16V
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