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Topic: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3 (Read 1996 times) |
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
  
Posts: 2594
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #20 on: May 26th, 2010, 12:57pm » |
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Gotta fit six tea-breaks in somewhere! 
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Mike H
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #21 on: May 27th, 2010, 11:51am » |
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Misch,
Unless you are very very good mechanically I wouldn't recommend fitting one yourself, there are a lot of potential pitfalls.
The American stuff is a bit of a pain, I used to buy from America, but got a lot of "substandard" bits that were re-conned in Mexico or wherever.
Some of the bits are ok, but if you got a problem, it will cost you more to post it back than buy another one.
Also, the V8 Valve bodys are calibrated differently, which means it may exhibit peculiar shift quality's.
That's why it's not a good idea to fit say a 2.0 valve block on a 24V etc etc...... They will work, but they ain't right if you know what I mean.
John, I can't beleive they are trying to make out they are doing you a favour, after they've took yr money......
If I'd have done that job.....
1) I wouldn't have let it out the door with a flare
2) If it started flaring after I'd done it you'd have had it fixed for free in the first year, and pay for parts only in the second year !!
Trouble is there's Auto Gearbox Specialists, and the there's Auto Gearbox Specialists lol, and until you've used a firm you just don't know how good they are.
Hope it's all okay now for you
Regards Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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misch
Newbie
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 32
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #22 on: May 27th, 2010, 1:53pm » |
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Dave
I really ain't that mechanical, I'll listen to your advice, so I won't be messing around with it 
Could you tell me one more thing, would it do much harm to the trannie if I leave it this way, because 2-3 flare doesn't bother me that much
tnx
Misko
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faffi
Full Member
Two-wheeled cornering
Posts: 109
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #23 on: May 27th, 2010, 2:34pm » |
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Could I ask what you mean by flare? Is it slipping and then connecting hard, or are you missing drive or? I'm just a stupid foreigner trying to expand my understanding of the English language 
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #25 on: May 27th, 2010, 5:45pm » |
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Wow type 'gearbox flare' in Google see what comes up. They all do it, Audi, Mercedes, Ford, Pergeot .....
With these computer controlled gizmos almost anything could be the cause, in one example, renewing the fuel filter cured it
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Mike H
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #26 on: May 27th, 2010, 5:54pm » |
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Did I mention, re the 2L 16V, whenever the throttle is closed the converter unlocks. (This is in O/D) then when back on the gas this allows it to rev a bit more, presumably "in case it's needed", then when the PCM decides it can pull the ratio it locks up again.
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Mike H
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exaktaman
Junior Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 72
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #27 on: May 27th, 2010, 6:04pm » |
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Had 2/3 flare since I bought my 2.3. Drive off quickly thro' 1/2 shift hold that throttle opening briefly (you need to learn how long) then lift off - the 2/3 shift take place smoothly and then drive normally.
I've done 17,000 miles like this and the flare has got no worse - 'touch wood'.
Exaktaman
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #28 on: May 27th, 2010, 8:15pm » |
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The problem here is if a gearbox is flaring it means that the particular element is slipping as it engages the gear.
In the Scorpio tranny, a 2 / 3 flare means that the "direct" or 3rd & Reverse Clutch is slipping as it engages.
Driving it around like this will burn the clutch out.
Eventually.
Yes, as said above, you can adjust your driving to help it, but this should only be done as a very temporary measure, fixing the problem is the answer, and no matter how carefully you drive it eventually it will burn out.
Trouble is there is a lot of different causes to this particular problem. Without seeing / driving /pressure testing it is impossible for me to diagose the exact cause, I can only make suggestions based on what you guys have said and assuming that any work that has already been carried out was done correctly and is all in order.
For example you may well have had a transmission rebuilt, but if the rebuilder for example caught a rubber seal in the direct clutch and tore it (easily done), then it's no good saying the gearbox guts are okay, just because its been re built.....
You see what I mean ? It really is a minefield.....
I've stripped 'em down when someone else couldn't / wouldn't fix a 2 / 3 flare after they've rebuilt it only to find they've forgotten to tighten the centre support screw, allowing fluid pressure to leak off internally and cause the problem. Very easily done if the phone rings and the rebuilder downs tools, answers the call etc etc.... The list is endless.
Bottom line is, if you've paid good money for a rebuild, got a guarantee, and it flares don't be fobbed off.... most flares are gearbox related so make 'em put it right or refund your money.
HTH Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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faffi
Full Member
Two-wheeled cornering
Posts: 109
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #29 on: May 27th, 2010, 9:30pm » |
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Thank you for the link to the explanation My 5-tronic in the Mondeo TDCi does this when it is well and warm during the 3-4 change.
[rant]
I really hate this car, it has been ridden by problems nobody seems able to fix (my bet has been the "brain" all the time, but the garage refuse to listen, just replacing item after item - good thing warranty covers it, although it doesn't heal the car). My first Scorpio, a 1995 2.9, had similar issues but at least the car was pretty and unique - something that cannot be said about the plain Jane Mondeo. Yes, it has similar room and comfort to the Scorpio (which is why I bought it) and more trunk space as well as more ground clearance and suspension reserve. And it's brilliant on slick winter roads. It still leaves me cold. [/rant]
As you were
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exaktaman
Junior Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 72
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #30 on: May 27th, 2010, 10:28pm » |
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Thanks to Dave2302 for that consise explanation of the problem. It seems the quest for super smooth shifts has created a number of problems. I was always satisfied with the shifts in my Mk2 & Mk3 granadas or in a 1988 Merc 260.
Question is, where is the best place to get my 2.3 Ultima gearbox fixed - without any hassle? I'm prepared to travel.
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gozz
Senior Member
Been around awhile
Posts: 3475
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #31 on: May 27th, 2010, 10:46pm » |
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You could always take a few days break in the frozen north and see if Dave has still got his auto tackle
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exaktaman
Junior Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 72
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #32 on: May 27th, 2010, 11:34pm » |
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Aye, a short break in Scotland would do me good! I've been to Mallaig, Fort William and his area looks really lovely on G--gle maps.
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #33 on: May 28th, 2010, 11:12am » |
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I'll always build a box lol, still have all my tools, have just finished my workshop a couple of months ago, complete with 2 post lift etc etc.
I'm only an hour from Fort William, and some lovely places to visit, fresh food local restaurants etc etc.
(And some wild guy who runs a Karaoke in the evenings round the pubs and hotels )
If you're doon soooth, you could always go to see Tony.
Above all else they are good, reliable and honest.
If it should go wrong they will bend over backwards to put it right.
Dartford Trasmissions 01322 - 281212
Fulwich Road
Dartford
Kent.
And what ever you do stay away from a certain firm in Erith Kent, and several in the "Medway Towns", Kent
HTH Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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pedropedro
Full Member
Posts: 677
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #34 on: May 28th, 2010, 8:23pm » |
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Dave..some advice had exchange box fitted 3 weeks ago ..now having your valve chest fitted by someone else...will the lower gasket be ok or should they be replacing it ? its cork and i wondered whether it will be damaged when removing it ? john
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #35 on: May 29th, 2010, 9:59am » |
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Should aways change the sump gasket every time it comes off or they can suddenly develop a dramatic leak, dumping all the fluid
They are only a couple of quid
If you only had that unit fitted 3 weeks ago it is covered under guarantee by law....
Which states it must be covered by at least a 3 mth parts and labour G/Tee.
Most auto firms give at least 12 months on units they fit.
This is plain unacceptable, I'd be giving them hell !!
HTH,
Regards Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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pedropedro
Full Member
Posts: 677
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #36 on: May 29th, 2010, 10:12am » |
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yes ....i realise that and they do want to resolve...its just they are a long way from me...i need take day off work taxis etc...so more logical to have a local person do
john
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #37 on: May 29th, 2010, 12:40pm » |
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Notwithstanding, surely best to stick with the original repairers speshly if they want to resolve, starts getting awfully complicated if you start involving other people. (?)
Problee bit late to suggest now but another option might be try a box from another car that is known to work properly, see if it works the same in your car
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Mike H
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pedropedro
Full Member
Posts: 677
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #38 on: Jun 29th, 2010, 6:14pm » |
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just had the valve chest changed ..now marginally worse...what I need i think is a replacement gearbox ideally working which i can get my man to change
any ideas where I can locate one?
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Tekno
Full Member
Tenho Ruohoranta
Posts: 599
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Re: 2.3 flare gearbox 2-3
« Reply #39 on: Jun 30th, 2010, 11:31am » |
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on May 26th, 2010, 7:54am, misch wrote:Dave
is it possible to do valve body exchange by myself, or is it too complicated...and what do you think about theese remanufactured VB on ebay, are they any good
tnx |
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it's easy and DIY'able
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1998 Ford Scorpio Ultima Estate 2.3i 16V
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