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Topic: Starting Problem (Read 1248 times) |
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
 
Posts: 246
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Starting Problem
« on: Dec 30th, 2014, 2:55pm » |
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since about 5 days ago, when I first start my 2.0 16v in the morning the instrument needles fly around and and the revs drop really low for the first few seconds, sometimes cutting out. once or twice the batt light has come on for about 1min. If I restart the car after its been on, its ok.
The battery is less then 2 years old and a much higher spec then recommended. I don't think its this because the car turns over without much effort. I am in Norway and its -5 to -10 on average.
Any ideas ?
Tony
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Simmo
Administrator
I'm an OAP !
Posts: 5508
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Re: Starting Problem
« Reply #1 on: Dec 30th, 2014, 4:17pm » |
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The spinning dials are a sure sign that there is an issue with the battery. Maybe you are doing short journeys and at this time of the year the alternator is not managing to keep pace with the demand. Try trickle charging the battery overnight and see what effect that has. With those sort of temperatures these cars need a great deal of power at start up. A combination of heated screens, air con, headlights, wipers etc takes some keeping pace with. Turning over and starting are two different things the latter requiring much more power. 
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PJDavis
Senior Member
2 x 1995 Jag X300 3.2 / 4.0 (Henley) 1957 XK140
Posts: 1474
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Re: Starting Problem
« Reply #2 on: Dec 30th, 2014, 8:39pm » |
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Yep, Simmo is right. I'll add to that. I have not-long fitted a High-Specification Bosch battery, and then left the car without starting for just Two-Weeks. The Battery was very dead, and the car was difficult to start even with cables. I now have an Accumate connected for when I'm away for a while. The Accumate took four-days to bring the battery back to power! Of course it was during a Scottish cold-spell around -7C degrees. The only thing I'd look at is that pathetically thin earth cable from the battery to the engine, I've put an extra nice thick earth cable in between the battery and the back of the engine, the car does turn-over quicker with this in place. Having said all that, batteries can give-up at any time, even within the first year! The only sure-fire way to test a battery is with a High-Rate-Discharger.
hth
Peter
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I love 'Movvy'
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X300 3.2 (Henley)
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X330 4.0 (Dopey)
1957 Jaguar XK140 USA (converted to RHD, and to have fitted Mk10 420G Engine with BW 65 Auto Trans)
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Scorpio_Mike
Senior Member
Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 & 2.8 Sierra XR4i 4x4
Posts: 2354
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Re: Starting Problem
« Reply #3 on: Dec 30th, 2014, 9:11pm » |
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Get a solar trickle charger - about £10 from Maplins - leave it on the top of the dashboard and plug it in the lighter socket
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Star sign is Scorpio !
Sierra XR4i's are great...especially when fitted with 4WD 
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
Posts: 246
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Re: Starting Problem
« Reply #4 on: Dec 30th, 2014, 9:13pm » |
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Thanks Simmo
I fully charged the battery on Saturday. Today I started it about 2pm and let it idle for 5 mins, got the spinning dials. Started it again 8 hours later -4 c and no flicking dials.
Its has been down to - 18 in the night on sunday/monday so maybe it did not like that. Have put the battery on trickle charge.
another question, can I charge the battery while its still connected in the car or will that cause damage? It would make things easier?
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Nunnspoet
Full Member
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Posts: 798
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Re: Starting Problem
« Reply #5 on: Dec 31st, 2014, 8:38am » |
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Ello everybody. . I notice that the glove-box light does not get a mention. This little so and so has caused many a Bty. to pancake, so I have disconnected all of them on my Scorps - no flat Btys. even when I have not started them up for weeks.
I do believe that the front ashtray light can come adrift and cause a similar problem.
Happy New Year, everybody
Mike
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Simmo
Administrator
I'm an OAP !
Posts: 5508
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Re: Starting Problem
« Reply #6 on: Dec 31st, 2014, 8:58am » |
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Personally I have always charged it in situ without any issues. Either of the suggestions made by Peter or Mike have to be worth a try. What you have to remember is that IF you are taking the battery OFF to charge it then the dials will always spin when you next switch on so don't think the battery is down under those circumstances. From what you say the car started OK and did so again eight hours later so it appears that it was simply needing to be charged. Keep us informed please. Only you know what use the car gets but as I said earlier unless you are running it long enough to allow the alternator to top up the battery then trickle charging is the only option.
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Scorpio_Mike
Senior Member
Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 & 2.8 Sierra XR4i 4x4
Posts: 2354
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Re: Starting Problem
« Reply #7 on: Dec 31st, 2014, 11:39am » |
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I use an Optimate charger / battery conditioner on my Sierra - battery is permanently connected to the car & the Optimate is permanently connected to the battery when the car is not in use.
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Star sign is Scorpio !
Sierra XR4i's are great...especially when fitted with 4WD
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PJDavis
Senior Member
2 x 1995 Jag X300 3.2 / 4.0 (Henley) 1957 XK140
Posts: 1474
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Re: Starting Problem
« Reply #8 on: Dec 31st, 2014, 1:02pm » |
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on Dec 31st, 2014, 11:39am, Scorpio_Mike wrote:| I use an Optimate charger / battery conditioner on my Sierra - battery is permanently connected to the car & the Optimate is permanently connected to the battery when the car is not in use. |
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Yep, I'm the same as said above. I use Accumate for both cars, and my main motorcycle, they're both not really used enough and please remember that a run means at least 30 miles with hardly any electrics on.
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I love 'Movvy'
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X300 3.2 (Henley)
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X330 4.0 (Dopey)
1957 Jaguar XK140 USA (converted to RHD, and to have fitted Mk10 420G Engine with BW 65 Auto Trans)
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PJDavis
Senior Member
2 x 1995 Jag X300 3.2 / 4.0 (Henley) 1957 XK140
Posts: 1474
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Re: Starting Problem
« Reply #9 on: Dec 31st, 2014, 1:05pm » |
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on Dec 31st, 2014, 8:38am, Nunnspoet wrote:Ello everybody. . I notice that the glove-box light does not get a mention. This little so and so has caused many a Bty. to pancake, so I have disconnected all of them on my Scorps - no flat Btys. even when I have not started them up for weeks.
I do believe that the front ashtray light can come adrift and cause a similar problem.
Happy New Year, everybody
Mike |
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Yep again. I've had the glovebox issue, and rather than disconnect I 'padded-out' the receiver and checked in the dark that the light was going out. Not sure where the ahs-tray light is, or I would disconnect it!
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IP Logged |
I love 'Movvy'
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X300 3.2 (Henley)
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X330 4.0 (Dopey)
1957 Jaguar XK140 USA (converted to RHD, and to have fitted Mk10 420G Engine with BW 65 Auto Trans)
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
Posts: 246
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Re: Starting Problem
« Reply #10 on: Mar 9th, 2015, 1:47pm » |
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Sorry it’s been a while on this. I came to the UK back a few days after posting (car still in Norway).
I had checked all the obvious things like the glove box and ash tray light (bulbs already taken out).
I did notice that after starting the car in the morning, it was ticking over at about 750 rpm. When I pressed the tailgate button, the revs would drop to about 250 rpm and sometimes cut out. Now the tailgate button has been icing up every day (it normally does not do this in the cold). So I am assuming water is getting in or behind it and shorting out, causing the battery to drain.
Does this sound probable and if so what should I do about it?
Tony
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Starting Problem
« Reply #11 on: Mar 10th, 2015, 1:11pm » |
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Not sure what could be causing the revs to drop like that, you’d expect a drain that big to blow fuses.
For what it’s worth if you use the remote or press the boot release button a signal is sent to the central control module the CCM then sends power to the release motor in the boot lid to unlock the boot.
You will also be connecting power to the interior lights when the latch is released.
If you unlock with the key it doesn’t rely on the release motor it is opened mechanically (you can still open it with the battery disconnected using the key).
The saloons are prone to loom damage near the hinges but whether that’s also a problem area with the estates I don’t know.
Whether a problem with the CCM boot wiring could prevent the electronics shutting down & therefore cause the battery to drain overnight I don’t know.
Perhaps try disconnecting the looms in the tailgate to the boot lock, interior light & boot motor & testing if the system goes to sleep.
Assuming you can unlock the boot with the key you could leave them disconnected & see if matters improve.
Details for checking the discharge rate are here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/electsystemtest.htm
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