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Topic: Failure to start. (Read 3185 times) |
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Simmo
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Failure to start.
« on: Nov 28th, 2015, 8:37pm » |
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At 4 oclock this afternoon I went to start my car which had been idle since last night at about 7pm. The engine turned over without issue BUT would not start. I could think of no reasonable explanation as it has a new fuel cut off loom and was working perfectly last night.
Mindful of the fact that these cars require a great deal of power to actually START them I put it on charge and went off for my pint!
A few moments ago(4 hours later) I turned the key and it fired first time. I have left it on charge overnight.
The point of this missive is simply to emphasise that sometimes it is the simple things that we need to look at.
In my case the battery is less than a year old BUT the car does only short trips and a lot of those (to the pub in the evenings!  ) are of short duration with of course all lights and air con on.
Hopefully all will be well in the morning once the battery has fully charged
Posted as a simple and perhaps timely reminder as winter sets in. 
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Scorpio_Mike
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Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 & 2.8 Sierra XR4i 4x4
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #1 on: Nov 28th, 2015, 9:24pm » |
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If you only do short journeys then get a solar trickle charger from somewhere like Maplins - plugs in the 12v ciggy lighter socket.
I have 1 in my Jeep & it is permanently connected and sits on top of the dash on the passenger side.
Is your alternator working correctly ?
Think I have a brand new one in my stash if you need one...
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Simmo
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #2 on: Nov 28th, 2015, 9:56pm » |
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Thank you Mike. It was raining at 4 so I did the minimum. I'll put the tester on the car tomorrow and check the alternator.
Fancy you having a spare !!!! 
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Glyn
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #3 on: Nov 28th, 2015, 11:23pm » |
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Pleased to see you are a responsible person and drive TO the pub . Obviously you don't drive back !!
Glyn
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Simmo
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #4 on: Nov 29th, 2015, 4:19pm » |
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Gentlemen. A frustrating day  . Car would not start despite being on charge all night. Decided to swap the battery and the first thing that happened was the fan started without the ignition on!  Original battery left on charge all morning. Showing over 12v at lunch time. Left it standing whilst we had lunch. Returned to it about 3pm. No sign of significant drop in voltage so replaced it on the car still registering over 12v. Car would not start!  Fixed charger to it again.Went to insert the radio code and the display was very faint. As I inserted the code the display gradually came to life fully and the radio functioned correctly.
Battery is currently on charge on the car still.
Car started perfectly with the alternative battery. Alternator charging correctly.
Any pearls of wisdom please?
My next step is to put the battery from the Scorp on to the other car and see what happens! That will have to wait until tomorrow however.
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Simmo
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #6 on: Nov 29th, 2015, 6:14pm » |
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Yes I do have a tester. The one I have will not show anything IF the voltage is below 11.5. Above that it will tell you if the battery is full or needs charging. It also tells you what charge the alternator is putting out,once the car is running, and that is how I know that the alternator is ok. Tested that when we started it with the replacement battery. My mate put his meter across the old battery after I'd tried to start the car and the voltage had dropped from above twelve to just over six! I think that indicates that under load it simply can't cope. I'll take it off the car in the morning and take it to the guy who looks after the Scorp and get him to put his tester across the battery. That should give me an answer. The battery is under warranty so hopefully if that is the problem it will be a no cost solution. Fingers crossed!
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Glyn
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #7 on: Nov 29th, 2015, 7:10pm » |
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My money is on the battery. Had a similar problem myself on a 24v 6 months ago. Charged up nicely to 13v no load but would not take any load and if left on the car overnight without the charger was registering less than 2v in the morning.
The battery was 10 months old, Bosch and was replaced under guarantee.
Glyn
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Andycan
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #8 on: Nov 29th, 2015, 9:15pm » |
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I agree with Glyn that the battery is not man enough for the scorpio probably due to getting old or maybe a cell is on the way out.
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Simmo
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #9 on: Nov 30th, 2015, 9:29am » |
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Gentleman. Going to the car early today I saw that the battery was fully charged. Have just returned from the factors who put a load test on it and it passed!. Refitted it to the car and the radio display came up correctly (as opposed to last night) and she started first time! I have no idea what it was all about but I guess time will tell if it was just a 'Scorpio' hiccup or there is an underlying issue yet to be identified. Watch this space!
Thanks for all your interest.
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Glyn
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #10 on: Nov 30th, 2015, 12:22pm » |
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Glad it is sorted.
Just a word of warning, when I posted that my battery was at fault I forgot to mention that I had twice been to the garage to have that battery tested and their smart battery tester had said it was ok and went through the process of checking the "resting" current drain in case there was an electrical fault on the car. Two months later their smart tester came up with "replace battery".
Hope you don't have the same.
Glyn
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #11 on: Nov 30th, 2015, 12:36pm » |
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Hi Mike.....you said that the fan started running without ignition on as soon as you put anther battery in. Makes me wonder whether you may have a damp fusebox or PCM ? 
Hope you sort it out mate...all the best, Jon
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Simmo
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #12 on: Nov 30th, 2015, 1:12pm » |
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Thank you Jon. The area round the boxes is bone dry and, of course, there is a battery cover fitted so I hope the issue is just a hiccup. I'll test the battery in the morning for any sign of current drain. Regards, Mike.
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Simmo
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #13 on: Dec 5th, 2015, 7:18am » |
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Gentlemen. The saga continues  I have used the car for a few days. Yesterday I went to my mates and on going to leave had the same issue. Car turned over BUT would not fire. We removed the rocker cover, pulled a plug and tested for a spark. NONE. Battery full, fuseboxes dry. Thinking back over the issue I recalled that each time the battery had been changed the car would start BUT we knew the battery was OK, it had been tested and the present voltage was well over 12v and only dropped slightly when I was cranking it. (Mate had his meter on it during cranking.) I removed the positive battery terminal for a few seconds, replaced it, the fans came on.....ignition was OFF...... and the car started first time!! It seems therefore that there is an issue with a sensor which is cleared by disconnecting the battery?? When I got home I put my hand held scanner on and there were no fault codes stored?. Somehow this issue seems to have a link to the fans which clearly should not start up like this. I removed a number of fuses, including F31,F34,F37,F42 and F44. F37 is said to cover the engine management system BUT it also appears in a thread about the fans. The fuses are all pristine.
Any ideas please?
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Scorpio_Mike
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #14 on: Dec 5th, 2015, 7:48am » |
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When you say fans, do you mean the heater fan or the radiator fan ?
Could be a sticking relay ?
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Simmo
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #15 on: Dec 5th, 2015, 8:33am » |
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Mike, It is the radiator fans which come on before the ignition is switched on. They go off when the car is started!
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Snoopy
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #16 on: Dec 5th, 2015, 8:37am » |
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Mike have a look at the eddis as well I seem to remember it is situated under the offside headlight.
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amigafan2003
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #17 on: Dec 5th, 2015, 1:06pm » |
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What is the PATS light on the dashboard doing when you try to crank it and it wont start?
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Simmo
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #18 on: Dec 5th, 2015, 2:34pm » |
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on Dec 5th, 2015, 1:06pm, amigafan2003 wrote:| What is the PATS light on the dashboard doing when you try to crank it and it wont start? |
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Hopefully I won't find out!! but I will check if/next time I have a problem.
I have pulled the connectors off both the Edis and the fan relay, sprayed them with contact cleaner, and refitted them. All the contacts on both the units and the connectors looked good and there is no sign of duff wiring. The only thing I did notice was that the pins in the Edis looked a bit white BUT I wonder if that could be a grease residue from initial installation. As far as I know it has never been apart before.
The absence of a fault code seems to rule out a sensor BUT I will leave the scanner in the car and check if it happens again before I do any work on the car.
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Simmo
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Re: Failure to start.
« Reply #19 on: Dec 13th, 2015, 3:08pm » |
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I hope I'm not tempting fate, particularly on this date!, BUT I have used the car normally for the last week without any issues. I can only conclude therefore that it was an issue with the EDIS connection which seems to have been cured by spraying with contact cleaner. The car does seem to run more smoothly as well so I hope that is the end of the matter.
The scanner and a spanner remain in the car!
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