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Topic: New Scan To Look At (Read 3198 times) |
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Fitzy
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New Scan To Look At
« on: Mar 2nd, 2006, 6:02pm » |
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I need help reading a scan i've just done, so could someone or more please let me email it to them to read and let me know what they think, if i'm reading it rigt my cars stuck in closed loop mode all the time even on a cold start up adn on my ten mile journey on a motorway the long term fuel trim stayed pretty low on zero for most of the scan only rising occasionally above zero a few times, and i think both my HO2S sensors may be playing up but i don't understand the readings.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
My car is a 2.3 DOHC auto estate.
Fitzy  
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scorpio_man
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Ford Kuga awd
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #1 on: Mar 2nd, 2006, 6:24pm » |
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hi dave
send it to me and i'll have a look.
see if i can make any sence of it.
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Fitzy
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #2 on: Mar 2nd, 2006, 6:33pm » |
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Email on its way Andrew.
Fitzy
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scorpio_man
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #3 on: Mar 2nd, 2006, 7:09pm » |
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i'll get back to you tomorow.
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scorpio_man
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #4 on: Mar 2nd, 2006, 8:14pm » |
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hi dave
your lambda sensor flat lines every now and then. what's your mileage? sensors last about 80k. did you look in enhancement for codes? you'll find the open/closed loop check in here.
have you checked the 'fuel cut off' loom to the coil packs? and the coil packs themselves? what about the spark plugs? the gap needs to be spot on (1mm).
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/handbook136.gif
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Fitzy
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #5 on: Mar 2nd, 2006, 8:49pm » |
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My mileage is 208800 so they could be broken by now. Is there 1 or 2 on the 2.3 DOHC as asked Trevor at Fordpartsuk for a price and when he replied he said that they don't list a Hego/Lambda sensor post cat, only a pre cat sensor, even though both are shown in the 16v components page as being fitted. I did try and look in the enhancement page during the scan on all the pages but couldn't get any information up, just an error message saying the test could not be performed or words to that effect.
So does anyone know for sure how many HO2S sensors are fitted to the 2.3 16v DOHC variants?
I fitted a brand new loom only a year ago and have got two new coil packs and new leads on order from Fordpartsuk which should be here Monday, also got new plugs too.
fitzy
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Fitzy
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #7 on: Mar 2nd, 2006, 9:07pm » |
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Andrew there are 2 listed one is a four wire universal sensor and other one is a four wire universal sensor (titania). The Titania sensor has a different wiring arrangement,:
Black = Ref. out
Red heater +
White heater -
Yellow Ref. in
The normal sensor is:
Black signal
Grey earth
White heater
white heater
Don't know what the difference is though.
I take it the one i need is the pre cat one then? Are they pretty easy to replace or do you need a ramp to gain access from underneath?
So in you opinion if i change the coil packs, plugs, leads and pre cat sensor this might solve my problem?
Fitzy
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scorpio_man
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #8 on: Mar 3rd, 2006, 9:51am » |
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hi dave
now you're asking.
re the sensor. it's the universal one. buy the lambda socket as well. makes things far easier. the sensor it's self can be changed from 'up top'. just take of the heat shield (mark the 3 bits first as it turns into a jigsaw puzzle if you don't!
plugs. ford ones last about 30k. gap needs to be spot on at 1mm. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAND-NEW-PLATINUM-PLUG-SET-FORD-SCORPIO-2-3-DOHC_ W0QQitemZ4616983467QQcategoryZ21654QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
coil packs. give them a look over. again check the loom (even if new). don't replace just now.
have you downloaded the ford enhancement files? this will tell you if you're running open or closed loop.http://www.obd-2.com/#download
will all that fix it. simply can't say. can you explain a bit more about the misfire. strange that it's at idle. normally something breaks down under load.
regards
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Fitzy
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #9 on: Mar 3rd, 2006, 12:46pm » |
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Morning Andrew
As for the Enhancement download, i done the scan on the latest VE1 software version 1.35 - 1 - 2 - 06. Does the enhancement only work while your running the original scan as your driving, as i can't get it to work during the replay.
The spark plugs are about 18 months old, will be fitting new plugs when i fit the new coil packs and leads, the plugs are the ones you recpmmended to me:
Denso K20TXR.
The garage did point out that one of the coil packs had a small crack where the loom plugs onto it.
The problem i've got is that it runs really lumpy at idle and has very little power on pull away and a strong smell of fuel (both on gas and on petrol), hunts badly at idle too, symptons die down a little as revs increase and are virtually un-noticeable at speed, but as you drive you can feel the car lurching slightly as it struggles with the power loss. It was the garage that suggested it was a misfire because of the high emissions, but i always thought with a misfire you can hear when it happens but i can't hear anything at all.
Fitzy
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scorpio_man
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #10 on: Mar 3rd, 2006, 1:25pm » |
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hi dave
now we're getting somewhere.
i thought you had lpg. 
re the enhancement file. yes, you need to log it first (don't need to be driving, just engine running).
re spark plugs. that's the wee skinny ones? on normal ones i'd close the gap to 0.9mm for the gas. check what yours is. maybe close to 1mm first.  also make sure they're in good and tight. 16v can work lose over time.
does your system take a reading from the lambda? i think it must as you would have a error code as in mine (mine runs rich if i take a feed). one problem i had to fix was a high resistance in the wiring from the lambda sensor to the ecu for the gas. just had to cut out about an inch of wire. resoldered it and all's well. something to look at.
re coil packs/leads. take them out and give them a good look. can you swap someone for a test (at a meeting?)?
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Fitzy
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #11 on: Mar 3rd, 2006, 2:04pm » |
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Andrew
After a drive into town earlier, i removed the Lambda sensor fuse for about five minutes and left it idling and there was NO change what so ever in the running of the engine, so i would've thought that if the sensor was working ok and the fuse was removed you would notice a change in the running, but there was none.
Have just ordered a new sensor from Cats-Direct so will hopefully fit them all (new coil packs, plugs and leads) by next Wednesday if the weather stays good to me. Hopefully i should notice the difference as soon as she starts up and then i'll do another ten mile drive and scan.
Can the sensors just pack up like that or do they deteriate over time as she has run a bit rough on gas for about six months now but i only run her in gas when i was going to do long journeys, always stayed on petrol around town.
Just remembered something the garage told me, they noticed a very small hole in the exhaust centre box that lets out small amounts of exhaust gases, but it wasn't big enough for a fail on the M.O.T though. Could this be an influance on my problem?
Fitzy
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scorpio_man
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #12 on: Mar 3rd, 2006, 2:41pm » |
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hi there
re sensor. your one is working, it's just flatlining every now and again. also it's a bit slow when switching. the fuse might be for the heater element. not sure the lambda it's self is only 1 volt.
as i said, check the pick up feed from the sensor to the gas ecu. i hate buying things that might not need replaced.
re running on petrol. WHY!!! mine starts on petrol, then it's on to gas asap!!! 
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Fitzy
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #13 on: Mar 3rd, 2006, 2:53pm » |
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How do i check the feed your talking about?
As for running on petrol this was because as i said it had been running rough on gas for about six months, bad idle stalling etc , so around town where its stop and go all the time i used petrol because of the stalling, very embarassing at roundabouts and i traffic. Never found the time to take to gas specialist 40 miles away.
Up until about six months ago she ru like a kitten on gas not even a flutter even when the outside temp was below zero, could switch over to gas within seconds of starting and drive away.
Fitzy
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scorpio_man
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #14 on: Mar 3rd, 2006, 3:42pm » |
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hi there
you should see where they've 'cut' into the lambda wiring. mines at the plug (about 12" from the sensor). i just checked for resistance from the multi-plug along the gas wiring.
remember gas will show up running issues far more than petrol. sounds like your problem(s) started when the gas started to play up. 
still would start with the lambda and plugs before doing anything else.
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Fitzy
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #15 on: Mar 3rd, 2006, 3:56pm » |
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Have just checked the wiring on my sensor and it all looks original, hasn't been cut and soldered anywhere, mind you i didn't remove the heat shield so it may have been cut under there. Will have a better look soon.
Fitzy
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scorpio_man
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #16 on: Mar 3rd, 2006, 4:00pm » |
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hi dave
i can only go from the way mines is setup. some newer systems piggy back the cars ecu and use all the reading from there.
still go with what i've said. change the lamdba, check/change plugs and check the coil packs out before change them. can't really thing of anything else without seeing/ knowing the car.
ps. think the 2.0 16v coil pack are the same, if that makes it easier to get a loan of 1 or 2.
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Fitzy
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #17 on: Mar 3rd, 2006, 5:05pm » |
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I've just had the heat shield off and they have spliced into the sensor's wires, so all i have to do is check the resistance of both wires that been added for the gas side? Any idea what the resistance should be?
While i had the heat shield off i unplugged the sensor then started her up, sounded exactly the same no difference what so ever, except a stronger smell of petrol but engine ran the same, so to me that does indicate a faulty sensor. Plus it looks really old amybe still the original, where the gas fitters have spliced into the sensor's wires you can see by the look of the insulation tape, and the its done nearly over 100,000 miles on the gas conversion. Doesn't look like the previous owner had the sensor changed either and he had it for 3 years before me and kept every reciept for every bit of work carried out, and all at FMD. But there's no reciept for a new sensor or coil packs/leads.
He even had the FMD change the dashboard bulbs when they blew at £45 a go (done this five times).
I've already bought 2 new coil packs from FordpartsUK which will be here on Monday so will try and fit all the new parts next week.
According to the chap at Cats-Direct who i've just spoken to, he said that the sensors can just suddenly die, and that if it was work in A1 condition and it was unplugged like i unplugged it, you would definately notice a considerable difference in the way the engine runs, so as mine made no difference it must be the sensor needs replacing.
Fitzy
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scorpio_man
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #18 on: Mar 3rd, 2006, 5:29pm » |
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hi dave
once you do all the work and it still starts
give it a very quick check via the VE. then disconnect the battery for 10mins. this will reset the fuel trims and the car will re-learn all it's running parameters again.
hth
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Fitzy
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Re: New Scan To Look At
« Reply #19 on: Mar 3rd, 2006, 5:35pm » |
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Ok mate will do, thanks for all you help Andy. Glad you didn't leave after your accident, we'd be lost without you.
CHEERS
Fitzy
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