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Topic: The general public are shallow (Read 2823 times) |
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Penguin
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Scorpio Owner 12/05 - 7/07
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The general public are shallow
« on: Jan 12th, 2007, 9:57pm » |
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Hi all
I was just reading Bruce's post on selling his car (and yes I would have it like a shot did I not already have a Scorpio and only one driver in my household) and I was quite amazed to see how low the Parker's valuations have got. I checked mine and it came back at £1700 from a small dealer.
Now I don't have an issue with this, it's not a lot less than I bought it for a year ago and anyway I intend to drive this car until it dies but it got me thinking that if such a good car is valued so low then it could only be because of either badge or appearance - which are quite shallow things to consider when one is buying a car.
To test this hypothesis I decided to have a look at how much BMW (the ultimate example of a bling badge on a fairly average car) one could buy for the same money without getting anything older.
Answer - nothing.
However if you were prepared to add another £400 pounds you could have a 316i from the same year. A car with steel wheels, wind down windows, a tape player, no air-con, cloth seats no speed, no space, no acceleration. In fact the only thing it equals the Scorpio on would be the fact they both cars a rear wheel drive.
If you wanted to get the actual BMW equivalent to my scorp, a 1998 528i SE Touring of the same year (and even this did not have leather, cruise or a CD stacker as standard kit (and 14 less horsepower than a Cosworth) you would need to have SIX AND A HALF GRAND to buy one today.
Now I have actually driven a (1999 as it happened) 528i SE Touring (was considering one when at the time I was buying the Scorp). The one I drove did have leather and a CD stacker (but no cruise) and was optimistically priced at £7,995. But it wasn't very comfortable, and it handled like a breeze block shot from a catapult. Even the Omega I tried was better than this, and so was the Volvo (both of which were much cheaper than the beamer but niether as cheap as the Scorp).
So who buys a 1998 BMW 316i (or a 528i SE Touring)? They must be very shallow...
Penguin
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #1 on: Jan 13th, 2007, 1:32am » |
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the only possible advantage of the bwm is the build quality might be better than the scorp.
i dont know if its still the case, but bwm never used to put hi fi's in cars, their reason was they let the customer choose which one they want then charge them accordingly as an optional extra.
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Penguin
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #2 on: Jan 13th, 2007, 6:03pm » |
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Scorpio's aren't badly built though, they are better than Rovers, a lot better than Vauxhalls (of the period) and definitely better than Daewoo's (trust me, I once had one). Okay, Scorps aren't as well built as Hondas but then and again what is? And Hondas are devoid of a soul (In the three years I drove a Legend I never at any point could say I enjoyed the experience).
BMW build quality is not something I have any great experience with although it has to be said that every late 90's BMW I've ever seen still on the roads today looks pretty shabby, whereas any Scorpio still running doesn't. (Though this could be because we all love out cars and look after them  )
on Jan 13th, 2007, 1:32am, taliban wrote:
i dont know if its still the case, but bwm never used to put hi fi's in cars, their reason was they let the customer choose which one they want then charge them accordingly as an optional extra. |
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That's hardly a selling point for a Beemer then is it? We'll rob you blind on the purchase price and then we'll rob you blind again if you want a decent sound system...
Admittedly I have just had my Ford 7000 radio replaced by an Alpine job but only because it died. While it lived it was the best standard kit sound system I've ever come across.
Cheers
Penguin
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
 
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #3 on: Jan 13th, 2007, 8:21pm » |
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With the value of the Scorpio, it's a fact of life with owning a Ford, they devalue. With our Mondeo, bought new (well, ex dem) by my uncle in September 1996, cost him over £12k even with his Sierra as p/x...list price then about £14,000. 27k genuine miles, dealer serviced, excellent condition, now probably worth £500 if we were lucky. Same with the Jag, I got it for £4000, near mint, low mileage, full history etc etc. In September 1995 that car cost £46,800...a lot of money then, our house was only worth £55k at the time. So, I benefit where others lose out, the same as when (if) the Scorpio sells...somebody’s getting a LOT of car for a grand or so. List price of the Scorp nearly £24k in 1996; 4 owners, good condition for age (whatever nice things you say, it’s not a minter, not perfect by any means but a nice car nevertheless). Even with good tax, MOT it’s worth little more than a banger now. Build quality of the Scorpio is quite high IMO, it doesn’t have a bad problem with rust and despite the niggles people have with electrics (could happen on ANY car, look on the Jag and Merc forums) and longevity problems with the autobox, the head/manifold gremlin on the 2.3 and the radiator gremlin on the 24v they last well, a good testament to this is the amount you see on the road in good condition.
Fords devalue...well they just do, mabye because the second hand Ford image is of a car caned to within an inch of it’s life and non-maintained, also Ford doesn’t have the badge/lifestyle image of an overpriced lazy German lump. Jags devalue because people run scared of the running costs and the supposed reliability problems and because they too have image problems. With BMW and MB, it's the badge thing above the quality of the car...gotta have the BMW badge, makes the car go faster, buys pseudo status; most of the 316 and 318 cars around here have M3 boot logos, 'why buy the real thing when you can have the bling' kind of thinking.
Mercs have more class than Beemers but just look so clumsy, sexless, unpassionate, lacking in soul. They look like bricks, handle like bricks but base models always hold value, because the badge is seen as something to aspire to. A mate of mine has a 1997 C220D Elegance; ok, it’s got leather and walnut trim, alloys. But, it’s slow, unsatisfying to drive, looks base merc (overly bare interior) and it cost him £5000 in average condition, I’d rather have a top end Ford than a bottom end Merc. And the likes of Toyota and Honda. Super high revving but no torque, fair build but no ride quality or soul. Give me my prowling cat or grinning frog back any day.
Rant over, I feel for my cars as you may have noticed 
Regards, Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #4 on: Jan 14th, 2007, 3:28am » |
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Yup....It's a sad fact of life that alot of people (with lots of money & no class) always opt to buy the badge & not the car 
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #5 on: Jan 14th, 2007, 1:57pm » |
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Yup....It's a sad fact of life that alot of people (with lots of money & no class) always opt to buy the badge & not the car
thats a good thing for us then, think how much our scorps would cost if that wasnt the case....
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Penguin
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Scorpio Owner 12/05 - 7/07
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #6 on: Jan 14th, 2007, 6:17pm » |
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£1,700 for a '98 Cosser Ultima Estate or £2,100 for '98 BMW 316i is really not an intelligence test anybody should fail, but we are the beneficiaries of all those people who do.
Cheers
Penguin
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Spannerdemon
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #7 on: Jan 14th, 2007, 6:30pm » |
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It actually amazes me that anyone would even want to be seen in a BMW. They are so BORING.
Personally I think they are the most boring looking cars on the road. Badly designed, horribly expensive to service and run, and invariably driven by total Richard Heads.
I hear them in the pub......Oh...I've got a BM!!! (Waiting for applause) 
(Not saying of course that it's the one round the corner 14 years old with the bumper hanging off, and furry dice hanging from the mirror)!! 
As to them being a status symbol, I think a 1930's tractor has more appeal!!
Give me the Scorpio any day. Quiet, refined luxury without having to 'show off' about it.
As for Mercs. A friend of ours needed a new wiper motor 2 years ago. Over £700.00 from Merc......THAT put me off them for life. Ugly critters anyway. Bit like German women!!
Yes, our cars MAY be a few years old, but they look good, and have far more refinement than any BMW will ever have. 
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big_neil
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #8 on: Jan 14th, 2007, 7:24pm » |
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have you noticed that most ,if not all bee,em drivers have gone for the extra spec. I.E. the piece of velcro stuck to the chin and the corresponding bit stuck to the middle of the chest! thats why they have that"pass me if you dare look"
and i thought i was the only person in the country who BMW,s do nowt for .ooooh i luv my scorpio!
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #9 on: Jan 14th, 2007, 10:57pm » |
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Spannerdemon, I've seen you driving around in your pearl finish M3 convertible with decadent rap pumping out of the stereo at 120dB, you can't lie to us mate
To someone my age, the 3 Series Beemer has way more status than either the Scorpio or the Jag. It's bling status, nothing to do with either performance or build quality; like an ipod or a gap year in peaceful, sunny Iraq, gotta have one, gotta have one...
If I sold both my cars I could get myself an M3, have the poke to pass 9 out of 10 cars on the road and have a car that a lot of youngsters drool over but why the hell when I already have a car which feels so good to drive, beautiful interior, ample power and is unusual as well? The Scorpio might not have quite the same gutsy acceleration or the real wood trim but it drives well, that dash is looooverly and has so many nice features which set it aside from other carsThey might have gremlins but how many people can honestly say a Scorpio handles like a brick or falls apart as soon as the original guarantee ends? These cars are getting old now, with all cars parts wear out...
Handling is the most understated thing on our cars in my opinion, for a lump with such a big arse it feels so nimble, so tight on the road. No bias from me, it's just outstanding in that area compared to a lot of 'better' cars. Give the Scorpio a subtle restyle, AWD and a revised block and you could market it today.
Regards, Bruce .
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #10 on: Jan 14th, 2007, 11:03pm » |
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on Jan 14th, 2007, 7:24pm, big_neil wrote:have you noticed that most ,if not all bee,em drivers have gone for the extra spec. I.E. the piece of velcro stuck to the chin and the corresponding bit stuck to the middle of the chest! thats why they have that"pass me if you dare look"
and i thought i was the only person in the country who BMW,s do nowt for .ooooh i luv my scorpio! |
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Neil, was it you then who outbid me on that fake body hair and gold medallion kit on eBay? 
Will have to shave the cat now to save my male pride, tabby designer stubble and hairy chest
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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big_neil
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #11 on: Jan 15th, 2007, 4:46pm » |
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my ex work colleague has a nearly new M3, went to the chinese tother night in it,only gone half a mile when my fillings nearly dropped out, it just doesn,t have any suspension does it ,also the extremely low profiles don,t help either.he says the suspension is that stiff so you can take roundabouts at 70mph!.he also said my ultima was the most comfartable car he,s ever sat in, obviously it would be if he,s only had BMW,s. there,s nowt like being wafted along in a scorpio is there?
P.S he,s got the extra spec one with the velcro pac!!
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mr._floppy
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #12 on: Jan 16th, 2007, 1:04am » |
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Compared to modern cars the quality of the 10 year old Scorpio interior trim still stands comparison.
The much maligned Walnut effect still looks as good as the day it was fitted, no fading or dullness, and the wee analogue clock has real olde worlde class.
The leather seats are as supple and soft as they were on the cow's back, no cracking or splitting.
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Jonnycab
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #13 on: Jan 16th, 2007, 1:15am » |
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on Jan 16th, 2007, 1:04am, mr._floppy wrote: Compared to modern cars the quality of the 10 year old Scorpio interior trim still stands comparison.
The much maligned Walnut effect still looks as good as the day it was fitted, no fading or dullness, and the wee analogue clock has real olde worlde class.
The leather seats are as supple and soft as they were on the cow's back, no cracking or splitting. |
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....most people that get in my Scorp can't believe that it's nearly nine years old.....& are even more shocked when I tell 'em it's a Ford 
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Dave
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Tourmallard 24v (ex-owner)
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #14 on: Jan 16th, 2007, 10:14am » |
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My first words when I got in a friend's parent's brand new BMW 3 series touring:
"Wheres the radio "
First words when I got in the Scorpio:
"Oh my god its amazing, how much was it again?"
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Life after the Scorpio ain't easy..
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big_neil
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #15 on: Jan 16th, 2007, 4:30pm » |
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the last time i drove a BMW 5series i felt like the queen does when she rides a horse, I.E. side saddle, my butt firmly planted in the drivers seat(uncomfortable) and my feet felt like they were in the passenger footwell!! are new BM,S like this? an awful driving position.
dave, your quite right the cosworth ultima when it was new would be close on 30,grand would it ??
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TiberiuS
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #16 on: Jan 16th, 2007, 8:14pm » |
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Neil, I'm not sure about your statements mate...at no time have I ever seen the queen riding a horse whilst driving a BMW 528i with a fake hairy chest and gold medallion attached. Shurely shome mishtake?
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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big_neil
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #17 on: Jan 17th, 2007, 2:34pm » |
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maybe i,m right tiberiuS, have you seen the queen without a top on? she might be hairier than a grizzly!(bang goes my new year honour)
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #18 on: Jan 17th, 2007, 2:40pm » |
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Oh gaud Neil, I'm shuddering as I write this...
Donate me a few £££ and I'll see if I can get you an honour
Regards, Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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sector-9
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No scorpio anymore
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Re: The general public are shallow
« Reply #19 on: Jan 18th, 2007, 10:15pm » |
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Let 'em pay silly money for a badge - it's a tax on idiots!
Darren
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