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Topic: Motorcyclists (Read 1865 times) |
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Motorcyclists
« on: Mar 25th, 2007, 2:41am » |
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This morning (24th) there were two fatalities on the M25, J28 over the Brentwood turn off.
It involved...1 lorry...3 cars...& 5 motorbikes 
Both the fatalities were motorcyclists.
Having accidents on the M25 like this are not uncommon...but to involve 5 motorcyclists is very uncommon.
I don't know the reasons for this accident, but I can only make assumptions that the bikers were doing a high speed convoy that didn't quite turn out right 
It's a very sobering thought that a biker can die a much nastier death on the road than a motorist
My question is....when a motorcyclist gets on their bike...do they drive the same as they would when they drive a car...i.e....obey speed limits & respect other road users....or does adrenaline take priority over judgement ?
I personally think that the latter is the case.
Bike riders have to be more alert on the roads, as they are the ones most likely to be hurt...so why don't a large majority of riders seem to consider this fact ?
They break speed limits most of the time (never seem to get caught) & give the finger to any other tax paying road user that happens to get in their way.
Certainly, there are many cases of car drivers pulling out on a bike due to 'lack of due care & attention'.....but I reckon a lot of bike riders should take notice of speed limits....as alot of drivers don't expect a small two wheeled vehicle to be doing double the speed limit when they look right, then left, then right again.
Motorcyclists....it's in your hands as to how much you value your lives.......go with the flow, & don't assume that everyone else knows your next move 
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dogma
Full Member
THE IVE NOT GOT A CLUE MONSTER
Posts: 367
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #1 on: Mar 25th, 2007, 2:56am » |
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 i couldnt agree more, i was a biker for years and i rode with sence, but i also lost a lot of good friends due to there own fault and fault of others. I look out for people on bikes but how many times have i been on the road when a bike under takes me at high speed, if id pulled over without looking he would of had it. Sometimes you can look but still not see them as they can just appear due to the speeds these machines now can do. My friend who is sadly no longer with us had a HYABUSA, this thing could do 190 mph as standard and he wanted it to go faster, if that came up behind you would you see it or would he have good enough breaks or control to slow it down enough before he and the bike becomes part of your car
good subject mate, its one that touches a nerve
jim
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LIKE MY CAR, WIDE WITH BIG TYRES
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pete from Hull
Senior Member
Non Scorpio at the moment, but still interested...
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #2 on: Mar 25th, 2007, 1:31pm » |
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Yes I totally agree, I think in most cases it's a case of the rider letting the influence of others rule the head, we have all watched the racing on Cadwell Park and Donnington etc but these people need to realise that the speeds used in these instances do NOT fit in with the conditions of everyday roadusing RIP to many of them .....
Pete
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Bring back fair wages.........
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craig
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i agree to an extent,but IMHO the younger breed of bikers are to blame,the more elder,experienced "born again bikers" who have been diving cars (or 4x4's ) and then gone to back to bikes are a lot more sensible,they tend to be more wary and road "user friendly"....
some of the yonger ones with no fear what so ever,really are suicidal sometimes......
heres a thought though,you can pass your driving test on a monday morning,and monday afternoom be drving a ferrari etc....
but now to ride more powerfull bikes (a hyabusa for example ) you have to go up in stages on tests....
a step in the right direction i think....
should possibly be the same for cars
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sector-9
Senior Member
No scorpio anymore
Posts: 1069
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #4 on: Mar 25th, 2007, 5:22pm » |
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I used to have a motorbikelet and the only accident I ever had was somebody rear-ended me on a junction because they thought I'd pulled off and I hadn't. Mind you, riding terrified me (though it was a great feeling on a nice day with a straight empty road ahead of you) so I always rode like I wanted to survive! My instructor gave me good advice - if you don't make eye-contact with another road user then assume they haven't seen you.
Darren
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v4-max aka Cheekyboy1
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focus cc mk3 mondeo 2.0 auto cbx750 vt600
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #6 on: Mar 25th, 2007, 6:32pm » |
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the accident was on the local news, it was caused by a car driver [bmw] who forced a lorry to swerve and over turn the car driver has been charged with dangerous driving and driving witout due care no doubt he will get dealt with very seriouly, probably get a £50 fine and told not to do it again.
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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I'm a YaBB newbie!
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #7 on: Mar 25th, 2007, 8:30pm » |
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couldnt disagree more jonny, ive ridden bikes and driven cars since i was about 20, im a fair bit older now (not quite simmo's generation  ) so have plenty of experience.
'My question is....when a motorcyclist gets on their bike...do they drive the same as they would when they drive a car...i.e....obey speed limits & respect other road users....or does adrenaline take priority over judgement ?'
the answer is simple, if bikers got on their bikes and drove as car drivers do they would all be dead.
They break speed limits most of the time (never seem to get caught) & give the finger to any other tax paying road user that happens to get in their way.
no difference to cars in that respect really, aqlthough bikes can often be assumed to be speeding due to engine revs (most dont redline till 15000) and race cans (which sometimes improve performance but are more often fitted because cars drivers are often blind and normally dont use mirrors, so at least they might hear us!)
Bike riders have to be more alert on the roads, as they are the ones most likely to be hurt...so why don't a large majority of riders seem to consider this fact ?
well, we have to be more alert due to moronic car drivers, but yes we are more likely to get hurt, and believe me, it does hurt! actually come to think of it, my left leg wrote off a mk1 granny that was in the middle of restoration once, thanks to its idiot driver doing a u turn without looking.
Certainly, there are many cases of car drivers pulling out on a bike due to 'lack of due care & attention'..
fact; more than half of all bike deaths are caused by other road users
as alot of drivers don't expect a small two wheeled vehicle to be doing double the speed limit when they look right, then left, then right again.
thats the problem, they should. apart from the double the speed limit bit which is a dubious generalisation, how many drivers do you see looking 'right again'?
car drivers seem to have the assumption that as there are more cars on the road than anything else, thats all they need to concern themselves with, the amount that havent a clue about other vehicles characteristics is quite frankly frightening, whether they be motorbikes, lorries, cyclists, artics, buses, horses, tractors etc, all of which have an equal right to the road.
Motorcyclists....it's in your hands as to how much you value your lives.......go with the flow, & don't assume that everyone else knows your next move
unfortunately jonny it very often isnt. its often been stated by motoring organisations, the police etc that the ideal way of reducing motorcycle accidents is to make all people learning to drive cars ride a motorbike/moped for 12 months first.
please dont assume (as lots seem too) that because theres a motorbike accident its the bikers fault, as in this accident like many others, it was a car driver.
lastly, i must apologise if my reply seems a tad angered jonny, nothing personal, but as a biker when i see threads like this i start to get touchy, however, im glad you posted it as it gives me an open and honest insight into how drivers (who've never ridden) view bikers.
on a worrying note, i havent been on my bike sites for a while so hadnt heard about this accident, im now a bit anxious as my ex girlfriend lives over that way and i know she was going out on her bike today.......
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #8 on: Mar 26th, 2007, 12:37am » |
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Points taken Taliban...& very well put forward mate
I don't ride a bike...never have done...& don't intend to 
But there does seem to be a differing opinion on a car driver's perspective of the road & a bikers perspective of the road
Cars must out-number bikes on the road by at least 10 - 1....so when you see bikers blatently breaking speed limits, then you tend to notice it more.
Maybe it's a deeply ingrained jealousy that bikes are faster than cars & can weave in & out of traffic
As Craig mentioned above...it's not the older more experienced riders that are at risk......because they know how to ride a bike.....it's the younger, inexperienced riders who are the ones that don't realise that a 1.5 ton heap of metal on wheels will kill them  .........
"due care & attention" should be practised by both bikers & car drivers......but unfortunately it isn't
Which is why I said that bikers have to be more aware than car drivers....because they are the one's who will come off worse ......
I know car drivers should be more aware, but the fact is, they aren't. Alot think they are great drivers, but aren't really, because they only look for other cars & don't consider bikes or cyclists, or even pedestrians.....jay-walking isn't a crime in this country & the pedestrian has the right of way over any vehicle 
There are also the mid life crisis/second childhood brigade that go & buy a big bike to try & re-capture what they missed out on in their teenage years 
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #9 on: Mar 26th, 2007, 1:01am » |
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Just noticed this comment taliban
"the answer is simple, if bikers got on their bikes and drove as car drivers do they would all be dead"....
....maybe that's why so many bikers die on the roads ?
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martin_rowe
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #10 on: Mar 26th, 2007, 8:29am » |
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both the lorry and the bmw car went through the centre barrier, the lorry on its side over all 3 lanes, the bikes had no where to go.
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Rally Drivers Do It Sideways
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fordnut
Junior Member
im Big im Grumpy but im very nice
Posts: 94
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #11 on: Mar 26th, 2007, 9:46am » |
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I ride a bike and drive when i ride my bike i ride to stay alive.riding a bike has made me a better driver also ,because on a bike you think more and adapt your style of driving or riding to the weather conditions/approaching juntions or roundabouts/distance to the vehicle in front of you...you get good and bad wether they are on a bike or in a car ( or lorry )..But i must add when im on my bike i can not stand the those cars ( mainly huge 4x4 's ) with those spinning wheel rims that make the car seem like its still moving even when they are standing still i saw one sitting at a junction the other day i did not know if he was going to pull out in front of me or let me pass due to his wheels were still spinning...
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i never apologise.I'm sorry but thats the way i am
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mazzy_j
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #12 on: Mar 26th, 2007, 12:30pm » |
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a nerve touching subject indeed here, having said that you dont even ride a bike then making the assumption that the bikers must have been speeding would be the equivalent of saying 'all cab drivers drive like idiots' having seen a few doing u-turns as and where they please, does picking up a fare take priority over safe judgement? as the saying goes, 'assumptions are the mother of all mess ups'...
tali is absolutely spot on with his reply, and i'd certainly agree with making new drivers ride on the road for at least 12 months, at 16 i had a bike on the road for the 12 months before learning to drive, the experiance certainly taught you to be looking everywhere at the same time. this experiance i would like to think what enabled me to pass first time without a single minor, and have the examiner at the end say he couldnt find fault with my driving im now 20 and have just bought myself another bike for geting around town on as the traffic is so bad, i would say that compared to 4 years ago i would actually say that drivers are more aware of bikers on the road, possibly due to the numbers increasing, or simply the area i live in (Boxhill is only 10 minutes away, or 5 on a bike )
this topic shouldn't be a have dig at motorcyclists opportunity as they were on the correct side of the road doing the speed limit for all we know, the first thing i noticed was that 3 letter badge beginning with B which is commonly assciated with bad driving (although there are some exceptions ) causing the accident, with the accident resulting in the tragic death of 2 bikers.
Quote:| & the pedestrian has the right of way over any vehicle |
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i wouldn't go stepping out in front of me then!! @
Matt
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #13 on: Mar 27th, 2007, 11:10am » |
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Ok...I can see that I'm just digging a bigger hole for myself to fall into if I write anymore on this subject & maybe I was making some assumptions that may not have been true.
I suppose I was writing from experiences & opinions & maybe wasn't looking at the bigger picture, but it's always good to know what other peoples opinions are on such a touchy subject. Opinions that you wouldn't know if you didn't talk about it
Lets just say that you get idiots driving cars & you get idiots riding bikes & you get idiots who walk infront of both, & of course, you get plenty of idiots driving cabs
Matt....If you said "like saying alot of cab drivers drive like idiots"....then I think that it would be pretty close to the truth. Alot of cabbies do drive like morons, especially the ones on radio cicuits who are late for jobs......but that's another topic
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #14 on: Mar 27th, 2007, 11:38am » |
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hi there
can we all have a read of this post by forum admin.
cheers
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #15 on: Mar 27th, 2007, 3:39pm » |
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I would like to add one more comment to this post if I may & I promise that it does not involve slating bikers as a whole, just this particular one.
About 2 hours ago, me, my wife & 2 1/2 year old (in his pushchair) were in Wickford high street waiting to cross the road at a zebra crossing. There was also a young mother with a pram waiting to cross from the other side.
When all the traffic had stopped we all proceeded to cross. Unfortunately a guy on a bike had different ideas....he went around the stopped cars & proceeded to weave in between the pram & pushchair on the crossing, narrowly avoiding both....infact we had to stop otherwise there was a good chance that he would have clipped my little boys legs 
Everyone, including people on the pavement just looked on in total dis-belief
So what did I do....well I gave chase on foot, but alas, I'm no Lynford Christie
All I can add to this is, I got your number pal & reported you to the police. And if I see you again whilst in my Scorp, then you'd better hope that you can still outrun me then
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mazzy_j
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #16 on: Mar 27th, 2007, 7:29pm » |
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Quote:| Lets just say that you get idiots driving cars & you get idiots riding bikes & you get idiots who walk infront of both, & of course, you get plenty of idiots driving cabs |
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Well said indeed
As we all know its the few inconsiderate individuals like that biker who give everyone else a bad name, i certainly hope the police get in touch with him for some words.
Matt
p.s. Apologies for the  in my last post
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scorpio_man
Administrator
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #17 on: Mar 27th, 2007, 7:40pm » |
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dh_dove
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There's no substitute for cubic capacity.
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #18 on: Mar 27th, 2007, 7:55pm » |
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Johnnycab
I think the answer to your original question was in the first line of your post..........24th March.
Our favourite watering hole is on a crossroads with traffic lights on the A46 (popular biking route), we enjoy sitting in the window seat and watching the world go by over a pint or two of Abbot Ale..........
It was very noticeable this last weekend how, after seeing very few bikes during the winter all of a sudden there were dozens of them.........ALL highly polished etc.
I think every fair weather biker (and possibly his dog) was out for the first time last weekend........
Out of practice, slower reflexes and something to prove........a recipe for disaster 
I'm surprised there weren't more serious accidents........
DH Dove
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Motorcyclists
« Reply #19 on: Mar 27th, 2007, 9:14pm » |
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dh, you could replace biker with scorpio owner, or put another way whats the difference between bikers going out and meeting up when the sun comes out and a car owners group?
Out of practice, slower reflexes and something to prove........a recipe for disaster
I'm surprised there weren't more serious accidents........
out of practice, yep, i know that feeling, i ached all over the other week, and actually i find when im out of practice i ride a lot slower and my reflexes are all eager, probably a bit too eager, dunno about other bikers. as for something to prove, true for some, but an assumption about all.
if you read down the posts you'll see that the accident jonny was talking about the bikers were totally blameless........
i think its a psycological thing with bikes, people always assume when a bikers 'down' its the bikers fault, even my mum has (and she loves bikes), was in the car with her last summer went round a bend, bike down, his mates helping him, no real damage or injury it was a low speed spill, my mum says 'ooooh going too fast'. i asked her how she knew that? she just said 'well they do dont they'. it turned out the road had been re surfaced and his rear tyre slipped out from under him on loose gravel. a bike copper also told me that cars are more likely to pull out on bikes than cars possibly because of their size.
jonny im glad you reported that biker, theres no excuse for that kind of riding, unfortunately i see exactly the same everyday down the kings road, but with cyclists.........
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