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Topic: Smoking ban (Read 3333 times) |
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pat
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I have been reading Panorama subject and wonder if I am on the same planet. Tonight at local Welfare where I am the compere, I am persona non grata with the smokers even though I am taking their side but trying to put the middle ground point of view. I am a non but not ANTI smoker. I used to smoke 30-35 per day. I live with a 20 per day minimum smoker who thinks nothing of leaving fag ash on the table, kitchen worktop, computer workstation, blows smoke into my face. I rarely complain but if I do it is me who is in the wrong.
Same as the smokers at the club-they are the only ones with rights. What ever happened to the rights of tolerant people.
I dare say that if there is any reply to this, it will be having a go at me. AGAINl
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pete from Hull
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #1 on: Jul 1st, 2007, 10:19am » |
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 ooooooooooo  oooooooooo
Pat, on the contrary not this response anyway, I agree with your thinking. I too used to be a smoker in the days when I knew no better.
Smoking is born out of the jungles of uncivilised man way back in the day's of that pirate fellow, who was it, oh yes SIR Walter Raliegh.
He saw it, was Influenced by those people and brought it back to dear old blighty, you know the rest.
The population of the world nowadays know, or choose to know no different, we have still got millions of followers of the habit although in the past 20 years or so many have come to realise the futality of wasting their health on something they are MADE to think is enjoyable.
The newness of these laws will wear off and people will eventually settle down to the new way of treating public places and peoples airspace and those who see sense will probably benefit themselves by giving it up. Let's face it, without changes in the laws there would never be changes in the way people conduct themselves.
We all had to go over to decimalisation and no one liked it, and many other examples of law change, it's like riding a bike, if you don't adjust the steering as your riding, you'll fall off.
I think there will be a bit of a moan and grouse for a while but it will sort itself out like it has in other parts of the country.
If you see what I mean...
Pete
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Spannerdemon
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Far from it. I am a non-smoker, and have been all my life. I fail to see any 'attraction' in filling my lungs with filthy tar and smoke. I would never have married Mrs Demon, (or any other lady) if she had been a smoker. 
From a public point of view, I'm all for the ban, as being a human being on this planet, we all breathe AIR, and thanks, but I don't want mine polluting, and to those smokers who reckon they have just as much right to smoke as I do to breathe clean air, fine, but don't do it near me.
The whole thing is a minefield. Employers can no longer order a member of staff to serve meals at an outside table for example, where smoking is allowed. The customer will have to return to the pub to take his meal outside himself. Sack the employee for refusing, and you'll find yourself at the wrong end of a tribunal.
As far as Pubs and Clubs go, I still think that each landlord should have been able to make the decision as to whether HIS establishment was going to be Smoking, or Non Smoking. A simple easily visible sign outside the pub, say red for a Smoking pub, and green for a Non smoking pub. Customers could then make their choices.
We are all constantly under attack by interfering little Jobsworths these days, but the British Pub is an institution in this country, and I for one think it's very sad that a lot of them will, undoubtedly go under because of this across the board ban.
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mr._floppy
Junior Member
Posts: 100
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #3 on: Jul 1st, 2007, 11:37am » |
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LIke decimalisation and seat belt wearing, there will be a period of faux outrage and pettiness but within weeks you'll all get used to it and before long smokers, like second nature, will automatically head for the door when needing a drag.
Here in Scotland the reek of fagsmoke in a enclosed public space is a thing of the past and smokers generally have , to their credit, taken it on board and have complied .
Although it has got slightly daft, I'm a Railway Signaller and there is a total smoking ban in the signalbox, this means some poor smoker, alone for a 12 hour turn of duty, cannot smoke in the box unless he goes outside to the stairway. Crazy!
It's a pleasure now to go to the pub, resturant or shopping mall without the reek of the devil weed. 
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #4 on: Jul 1st, 2007, 11:57am » |
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Nope, it's another example of the nanny state excercising its grip on Joe public. What's wrong with allowing the owners of the premises decide whether or not they want to allow it and displaying signs accordingly?
Never smoked, never tried it, never will. But I have no problem with someone else lighting up, the majority of the chaps I work for smoke, maybe I just get used to it. No offence to anyone on here but I still think most people strongly in favour of the ban are ex-smokers who doubt their own will power or those with the attitude that they had to quit, so everyone else should have to. We get to the point now where hard drugs are almost accepted into some parts of society (albeit is not legal), now we're banning smoking - if you believe the news they're now thinking about some kind of limit/ban on alcohol too, the only reason that won't get enforced is the amount of tax the treasury would lose.
I get your points chaps but whatever happened to personal choice?
EDIT: Spanners, just read through your post with the bits about letting the landlord decide. There's a few small pubs around here, hope we don't lose a lot of them through this.
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #5 on: Jul 1st, 2007, 11:59am » |
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on Jul 1st, 2007, 10:19am, petehull wrote:
ooooooooooo oooooooooo |
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Pete, what's with all these ooooo's cropping up on your posts?
ooooo, maybe it's me
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Kjetil S
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2001 BMW 520iat
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #6 on: Jul 1st, 2007, 12:22pm » |
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Norway has had a smoking ban in public places for almost three years now. The day it came into practice felt like someone flipping a switch, as I suddenly felt I could breathe when I went to the pub or other public places, and me being in the army at the time, we had a place were everyone gathered after "work". There wasn't an option of getting one place for smokers and another place for non-smokers.
I remember the outcry from the smokers back then, but most people seem to have found an understanding for the ban now.
I'm not a huge anti smoker, but I do feel that *I* should get to decide wether I breathe in smoke or not. If someone else wants to fill their lungs with tar, be my guest, but don't do it in my face, please.
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Highlander
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #7 on: Jul 1st, 2007, 1:03pm » |
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Whats happened in a couple of my locals is that they actually have MORE customers now than they did before the ban..
I also tolerated people smoking when I was out but the choice was either to do that or stay at home.. I think a lot of people stayed at home..
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up ! Too much for an old boy!  |
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v4-max aka Cheekyboy1
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #8 on: Jul 1st, 2007, 4:14pm » |
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ok, lets see how smug you all are when people give up smoking. when your taxes go up because of the billions in lost revenue lets see how happy you are then. i for one will continue puffing on my weed. ps i have now given up drinking, as i dont see why i should have to stand outside in the cold and rain. thats 50 quid a week lost to my local publican, and i suspect alot more will do the same. still at least i will be able to afford to run the scorp. and by the way, dont be surprised if the accident rate goes up with drivers suffering withdrawal and fidgeting about behind the wheel. i for one will be paying lots more attention to my fellow so called profesional drivers for the next few weeks.
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pete from Hull
Senior Member
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #9 on: Jul 1st, 2007, 5:09pm » |
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Quote:
Pete, what's with all these ooooo's cropping up on your posts?
ooooo, maybe it's me
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Hi Tib,
I have just refitted a load of bits on my aircon, they are left over "o" rings so I thought I'd use them for a bit of decoration....
Like it?
Pete
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Highlander
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #10 on: Jul 1st, 2007, 5:21pm » |
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on Jul 1st, 2007, 4:14pm, v4-max aka Cheekyboy1 wrote:| ok, lets see how smug you all are when people give up smoking. when your taxes go up because of the billions in lost revenue lets see how happy you are then. i for one will continue puffing on my weed. ps i have now given up drinking, as i dont see why i should have to stand outside in the cold and rain. thats 50 quid a week lost to my local publican, and i suspect alot more will do the same. still at least i will be able to afford to run the scorp. and by the way, dont be surprised if the accident rate goes up with drivers suffering withdrawal and fidgeting about behind the wheel. i for one will be paying lots more attention to my fellow so called profesional drivers for the next few weeks. |
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The ban is not aimed at STOPPING people smoking altogether! Neither will this be the result. No one I know has given up because of it.
So the "billions in lost revenue" is not going to happen.
And as for the lost revenue to the pubs.. as I stated in my last post, the pubs round here are if anything BUSIER than they were before the ban.
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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pat
Full Member
Rover 75. Rover 620. Ford P100 Pickup.
Posts: 545
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #11 on: Jul 1st, 2007, 7:26pm » |
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I agree with the revenue concerns (although my main point was about the general level of intolerance - on BOTH sides!). Using the govt's own figures, smoking costs the NHS £1.5 billion per year. tobacco revenue brings in £8.5. If all the smokers do pack up tomorrow, who is going to pay my share of the £7 billion shortfall?
Form an orderly queue please......
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Highlander
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #12 on: Jul 1st, 2007, 8:40pm » |
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Again.. it is not a total smoking ban, they are only banning smoking in public places..
people are not going to give up smoking because they cant smoke inside in a public place!
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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nic
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I have had it with this ban, last night was a big blow out and I killed several million brain cells and 3 wonderful cigars all aged minimum 10 years, great.
I don't have a problem with the ban, I will go outside. I do have a problem with the reasoning behind it.......let me explain.
Point 1, To date no one has died of "Passive smoking", why?
Because there is no evidence that second hand smoking kills, none in the world apart from the World Healt Organization and they cannot get their figures right on anything. This shatters the litigation claims expected to flood in.
This is just another stupid law brought in to make us sheep living in a nanny state.
Point 2, Anti Smoking Lobby, or the war on tobacco.
ASH- Money comes from where.............Smoking companies have to donate some of their profits to anti smoking groups. But where else does there money come from....
Pharmaceutical companies, why, well let me explain.
1.6 billion smokers in the world, tell them they are addicted and offer a cure in the form of patches, gum etc. We all pay for this as it is provided by the NHS. mmmmmmm a captive audience of smokers, let them know they are addicts and offer a treatment at cost. Join forces with the anit smoking lobby and you are doing a public service and not in it for the money, oh no.
Oh and dont forget to donate to the Labour party......
Point 3, SMOKING KILLS............................SMOKING CAUSES CANCER...................Where is the proof
It is has become ‘common knowledge’ that smoking is one of the worst things you can possibly do to yourself; ‘all the experts agree’. Of course, ‘all the experts’ once agreed that masturbation caused blindness, that homosexuality was a disease, and that marijuana turned people into homicidal maniacs. In the 1970s and 80s British doctors told mothers to put their babies to sleep face-down. Cot deaths soared, until a campaign by one nurse succeeded in changing this policy, which we now know to have claimed something like 15,000 lives.
Very few Chinese women smoke and yet they have one of the highest lung cancer rates in the world. Lung cancer rates practically everywhere have been rising since about 1930 and in some cases (e.g. American women) have not peaked yet, despite the fact that smoking rates have gone steadily down. Japan, one of the world’s heaviest-smoking nations, is also in the top two or three in life expectancy. Japanese rates of lung cancer and heart disease have nevertheless been rising for the last 3 decades - at the same time as their smoking rate has gone down.
But then again, when have this wonderful government ever let the truth get in the way of fleecing the electorate.
Ireland and Scotland have had a huge hit on pubs closing, Ireland has lost 1400 pubs in the last 3 years, lots of jobs. Scotland's thriving Bingo clubs have been decimated, pub closures are happening everywhere. I look forward to the only pub chain to survive being Weather spoons and their plastic decor, stinking pubs with no atmosphere.
Beer will be the next crusade, bad for you so tax it, then fatty food who knows where it will end. may be any car that does less than 30 mpg will be banned............................................
Will the last one to leave the UK turn off the light, right im off for a cigar to relax
Any one wanting to know the truth. click here
http://freedom2choose.co.uk/index.php
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pistonbroke
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Well said that man 
They never let the "facts" get in the way of what they want to do... "facts" are usually debatable/open to interpretation for normal people. It's a good job the great and the good know better then.
Don't get me going on drug companies
Still, at least all the extra taxes we'll pay for global warming will be well spent then
Dave (who won't need to turn the lights out because he won't be the last to leave )
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Jonnycab
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #15 on: Jul 2nd, 2007, 12:48am » |
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Nic....nice post & although I don't really know if everything you have stated is fact, it's a pretty good arguement for the "where's the real proof that smoking kills"
It's a fact that alcohol is a bigger killer than tobacco. There are more complaints, diseases & deaths due to alcohol than there are for tobacco.
Smoking has never been proved to actually cause any illnesses, but rather increase the chance of suffering from a certain illness, mainly cancer. Everybody has cancer cells in their body, inside & out (moles), & it can be triggered by anything...ie...smoking, exposure to sunlight etc..... even severe shock.
Alcohol, on the other hand, is proven to actually cause damage to the body & be a direct cause of organ disease etc.... rather than increase the chances of triggering a heriditary or dormant nasty in your body
So why not ban alcohol as well ?
Reason being...the person next to you doesn't have to breath it in....but the person next to you may still suffer the consequences when you decide, after 8 pints, to smash his face in
I would say that alcohol abuse is a bigger problem than nicotine addiction, socialy, physically & mentally.....just go to casualty on a Friday/Saturday night....it ain't filled with smokers who have smoked too much
I think that the world has a bigger problem with alcohol than it does tobacco
I'm a smoker, but a very picky smoker. I don't smoke filtered cigarettes. The tobacco is stale & the filters (as far as I know) contain just as many toxins as the tobacco....& they burn the back of my throat
A nice bit of fresh, moist tobacco out of the Golden Virginia pouch, as far as I'm concerened, is just what the doctor ordered
The new smoking laws don't really affect me to be honest. I've never let anyone smoke in my taxi & I don't smoke in it myself....but I might have one on the way home after a long, late night (window open of course).
But now I can't even do this....the law states that a licenced hackney carriage vehicle "must be smoke free at all times, even when not being used for hire"....& the smoking police are looking out for you
I think this whole no smoking thing should have been thought out more carefully by the government & as was mentioned before....pub landlords should be given the option to have smoking or non-smoking.
I'm off to do now what the native American Indians used to do of an evening.....smoke, relax & go to bed
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Spannerdemon
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I follow your ideals Nic, but the one thing I don't agree with you on is this.
If I go to any public place of entertainment with my wife, we prefer to come home with our clothing not stinking of smoke, and my Wife and I don't want to have been breathing other people's second hand smoke either. That's where smokers and non-smokers don't agree.
We are human beings. We breathe AIR. 
Nobody is ever going to tell us that THIS sort of thing (below) on a table will ever attract us to a restaurant or pub, or bring me back as a customer. EVER. Because it won't. It's filthy to a non-smoker. So trade will not suffer, it will improve, despite what smokers say.
That to me is where we non-smokers are now protected.
It doesn't stop you smoking.
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pat
Full Member
Rover 75. Rover 620. Ford P100 Pickup.
Posts: 545
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #17 on: Jul 2nd, 2007, 12:44pm » |
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Well, there are a lot of interesting points of view and interesting info arising from this. I didn't really expect my late night(early hours!) little gripe to evoke ANY response-let alone provoke such debate. It again underlines what a great site this is
P.S. I would make one point. Although this must be the nanniest administration ever, don't imagine it would have been any different with any of the others. As far as I am aware they all went along with it(as long as it excepted the House of Commons of course - don't do as we do, do as we say).
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DazRSK
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I'm a YaBB newbie!
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #18 on: Jul 2nd, 2007, 3:12pm » |
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A lot of good points have been made from either side here. I used to be a smoker of cigars - probably only a few a week and hardly what you would call addicted to them, but nevertheless, I still found it relaxing to have a pint and cigar every so often. Never been addicted to fags - and from the addiction point of view, I am pleased at that.
I was at a indoor rock gig once - forget now who I was watching - and lit up a cigar. The guy behind me just pleasantly requested that I stubb it out as it was making his eyes water. From a non smokers point of view, what I was doing was a bit gormless, I guess. I haven't picked up a cigar in 7 years - just sort of gave them up. Wasn't smoking them frequently enough for it to really concern me.
I think the point is that there are very few non-smokers who believe that everybody should be non smokers and if anyone did, it would be an extreme uphill battle. After all, what gives non smokers the right to inflict their view across society.
I do agree with this new law because what I do object to though - as has been said - is breathing in other people's smoke, just like that guy at the gig "complaining" to me. I realised my error and was considerate. Unfortunately, as I have got older and tended to mix with more and more people who don't smoke, I seem to be able to smell it more on my clothes now after a night out. The following day, if it really was like a bonfire in the pub the night before, my throat is sore and nose aches. Just don't feel 100%. Is it fair that smoke is inflicted on me in that way so that I feel groggy the next day ? I could go somewhere else, of course - like another pub. But why should I ?
And if anybody says that 2nd hand smoke is not the harmful substance that it is made out to be, then why do I feel rough afterwards. Look - I think we are all kidding ourselves if we stated that fresh air with a dose of smoke 7 times a week is the recipe for well living and long life until 110. Our bodies don't really function on smoke that well.
Now I do have the issue with the alcohol vs smoke. I have never hit anyone because I'm drunk - no matter how many I have had - and nor do I recollect any of my mates. We have been sprung by a group of lads once wanting punch up on a Saturday night but that was quickly passified.
I am not that naiive to fail to recognise what is happening in our towns and cities with the binge drinking, but there are laws and police to mop that sort of crime up - albeit at a costly measure. I agree that less drink leads to less crime leads to less taxpayer & other expenses. But violence is not a 100% pre-requisite after drinking in everybody.
When in the pub and there are 2 groups of people next to me - one group is smoking and one group drinking heavily. I think it is a small possibility that the group drinking are going to inflict their excesses on me. They may want to take us outside and beat us up, but the % chance of this is small. There is a 100% chance that I will suffer from the smoking group in one way or another.
That's enough from me.
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pete from Hull
Senior Member
Non Scorpio at the moment, but still interested...
Posts: 1365
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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #19 on: Jul 2nd, 2007, 3:44pm » |
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Quote:
I was at a indoor rock gig once - forget now who I was watching - |
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On the whole...
Was it Smokey Robinson by any chance
Some good point made there....
pete
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