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Topic: penalty points! (Read 3864 times) |
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big_neil
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penalty points!
« on: Jul 19th, 2007, 1:05pm » |
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surely the whole point of getting points on your licence for motoring convictions is supposed to be a deterrent, in my local paper lately there have been a couple of cases where the convicted has pleaded that if they get any more points they will be banned and that means they can,t do their job and subsequently provide support for their families. one of these people was clocked doing 144 MPH on the A75, the judge fined him with court costs and no points as he,d then be banned stopping him from doing his job. surely that is the whole point as his previous 9 points were for excessive speeding as well, it beggars belief that he,s still behind the wheel.
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Spannerdemon
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Gets right on my nerves that does. It's like these snivelling drivers who get caught drink-driving, and then their greasy palmed obsequious hand wringing solicitors come out with the "But if you ban him, He'll lose his job" routine.
Well TOUGH, SO WHAT................Should have thought about that when you got in your car shouldn't you, you drunken apehole!! 
Sometimes wish I was a Judge, because the Gallows Maker would still be in heavy demand!! As would the birch grower, the pillory fitter, and the ducking stool operator!!
They wouldn't want to come to MY courtroom......No Siree. Maggots, the lot of them. 
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big_neil
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #2 on: Jul 19th, 2007, 2:59pm » |
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i think i like you spannerdemon, you see things the way i do. i,m a retired electrical engineer and if they would let me i could practically cure all crime overnight in this country. PLEASE,PLEASE let me have a go!!
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Spannerdemon
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Teach me to wire up Courtroom doorhandles Neil, and we've got a deal.
I'd build courts next to electricity pylons. You'd need the extra power!! 
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pete from Hull
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #4 on: Jul 19th, 2007, 3:38pm » |
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on Jul 19th, 2007, 2:44pm, Spannerdemon wrote:
"But if you ban him, He'll lose his job" routine. |
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BAN?, ..... JOB? ....%@~#"" ........I'd chop his/her legs off.....
Quote:| Sometimes wish I was a Judge, because the Gallows Maker would still be in heavy demand!! As would the birch grower, the pillory fitter, and the ducking stool operator!! |
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ABSOLUTELY! well said Spanners I agree with youre every word
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Bring back fair wages.........
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pete from Hull
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #5 on: Jul 19th, 2007, 3:41pm » |
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on Jul 19th, 2007, 3:24pm, Spannerdemon wrote:Teach me to wire up Courtroom doorhandles Neil, and we've got a deal.
I'd build courts next to electricity pylons. You'd need the extra power!!
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-----------------------------------
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Bring back fair wages.........
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jg
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We are all manufacturers, Making good, Making trou
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #6 on: Jul 20th, 2007, 12:10am » |
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I know a guy that got stopped doing 70 in a 30, down a bus lane, got fined, given points, BUT no ban, he appealed, won, no fine, no points. It would not be right of me to say that his name was Petal and he is Hindu, so I won't, and the reason he got away with it...Mistaken Identity...I feel sorry for the police men who stopped him, all that paper work for nothing, but they caught him red handed, Mistaken Identity
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To Let, or not to let, that is the question.
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mr._floppy
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #7 on: Jul 20th, 2007, 12:48am » |
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People whose job depends on them having a licence ( unlike mine, although I need the car to travel to work ) will always be looked upon more sympathetically by Judges, Magistrates and Sheriffs, than people who don't.
It's unfair, immoral and wholly illogical, these serial recidivists abuse and flout the law knowing that their livelihood depends on them holding a licence, yet when brought to book, their Lawyers claim that by banning them they will suffer hardship ,
erm  , isn't that what punishment means , or else, it isn't much use as a detterent ?
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dogma
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THE IVE NOT GOT A CLUE MONSTER
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #8 on: Jul 20th, 2007, 2:16am » |
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I strongly agree with you all. I work for the police and thought you would like to hear how wonderful our justice system is- a male was caught on CCTV stabbing another, he was arrested 3 minutes later still with the bloodied knife. THAT GUY IS GOING DOWN FOR A LONG TIME i hear you cry, well no, due to the evidence bag being ripped due to the knife, it was replaced with a new one, his loyer or rat as i call them, got him off as he made an alligation that the police had tampered with the evidence and thats why the bag was changed. What a great justice system we have ay, lets all sleep well tonight, and i hope the crap judges of this country dont
jim
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LIKE MY CAR, WIDE WITH BIG TYRES
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john.n
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #9 on: Jul 20th, 2007, 11:00am » |
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I thought i would ad my 2 penerth to this. I think this problem could be solved if we adopted a system in use in some parts of the USA, where you can be banned but still allowed to use your car for the journey to and from your place of employment. Thus allowing the person to maintain his family himself and not the tax payer. john.n
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #10 on: Jul 21st, 2007, 2:03pm » |
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the trouble with that idea John is how do you monitor it? please dont say a little black box in the car................ 
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Jonnycab
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #11 on: Jul 21st, 2007, 5:22pm » |
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If some people need their driving licences to earn a living etc, then why do they commit offences that are serious enough for them to end up with a ban ? 
Do they have no fore-thought about the possible consequences of their moronic driving, & how it may not just affect them, but other innocent road users & pedestrians etc.
I think that the real issue is the fact that they are a menace not just to themselves, but to everyone else around them & until they realise this fact then their driving behaviour will never change.
They must be punished & made to realise that having a licence is a privilage, not a right & that that privilage will be taken away if they abuse it, regardless of whether they rely on the vehicle or not.
If people don't have the sense to realise that they may lose their livelyhoods by driving like a moron, then maybe they shouldn't be driving for a living in the first place, & maybe they should consider some other line of work 
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v4-max aka Cheekyboy1
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #12 on: Jul 21st, 2007, 6:05pm » |
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i take it that your one of these people that have never exceeded the speed limit, you only have to be 4 mph over to get flashed by a camera. go on tell me you have never broken the limit, and lets see how many people believe you.
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Spannerdemon
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I don't think that 4mph is exactly the issue here. The issue is these lunatics (like the guy at the start of this post doing 144 mph) driving like complete lunatics.....and basically.... getting away with it.
Now I know you might think that he was just speeding, but consider this.
At that speed, IF something had cropped up, he would have been killed. No if and buts, he would have been killed. And I will say it............it would have served him right.
But what concerns me more is this. In doing this LUNATIC speed, and just like these Drink Drivers, or the Dangerous Drivers or the Boy racers, he might just have wiped out somebody else.
And that somebody else just could be YOUR Wife...Mum...Brother...Sister...Dad...Children....................
THAT is why I've got no time for these scum, and for me, they deserve all they get, because the roads would be much safer without them.
My wife is a nurse, and regularly deals with road accident victims who have smeared themselves over the tarmac.........................and she also has to break the news to those people's relatives and the relatives of the victims of drink drivers that their little boy, or Mum etc ...........is DEAD !!!
Because some ***** was showing off in his fast car!!
Think about it. Don't even go there.
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Jonnycab
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #14 on: Jul 21st, 2007, 8:09pm » |
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CB1...I have in fact got 3 points for speeding which are due to be spent this November. It was for doing 47 mph in a temporary 40mph speed limit (roadworks) at 2am on the A12.
I got caught by the camera, fined £60 & took the 3 points like a man. I didn't argue with the courts, I accepted that I was in the wrong & learned my lesson.
What I said before may now sound a bit hypocritical, but I wasn't talking about the odd speeding fine that most people seem to get every now & then.
I was replying to the original point in this post about people who recklessly drive at 144mph (instant ban) & then try to get off it by sobbing to the judge that they need their car to make a living 
Sorry if you took it the wrong way 
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #15 on: Jul 21st, 2007, 8:10pm » |
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The chap I was working for a couple of years back told me one day about a guy he knew who worked as a plumber.
This guy used to have a few beers after work every night then drive home about half a mile from the pub, acceptable or not, depending on your opinion.
This went on for a few years without incident until one night he got pulled as he drove out of the pub car park, result was court appearance, fine and loss of license for 3 years. He ended up cycling to work and paying other builders to carry his tools around for him...but the last I knew he had his license back and hadn't been drink driving again.
I think we need a bit of perspective here, straying a few mph over the limit on a clear road isn't in the same league to doing 140+ on ANY public road. The majority of cars now are quite highly powered and can be deadly in the hands of an inexperienced driver, the driver's limits are reached way before the car's are IMO. I'm no saint, I nudge a few mph over sometimes, but I wouldn't say I do irresponsible speeds anywhere and I've never been anywhere near pushing any car I've owned to either mine or its limits. Out of curiosity I had both the Scorp and the Jag to high speed (nowhere near 140) once, problem is that in a quiet car it feels so slow but I know that if anything happened - even something beyond my control like a blowout - there's very little chance I'd live to tell the tale. Maybe if someone is too stupid to know their car's or their own limits then a ban is the only way to ensure everyone else remains safe . I value my clean license too much to mess it up, couldn't live with driving a Corsa or Fiesta after the motahs I've been used to
A lot of money is to be made out of drivers straying over the limit, it's got nothing to do with road safety. Speed and plain dangerous driving don't always go together, I nearly got wiped out the other day when someone decided to overtake on a blind left bend...about 45mph in a 60. Lucky for me I saw him, had it been night I might not have been so lucky  .
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Spannerdemon
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I think that this is a subject that people don't realise the seriousness of. Until it happens to them!
Losing a loved one due to the direct actions of somebody else's selfishness is not just devastating. It ruins many other lives too, and at the moment, we have a government that is too spineless to do anything about it.
If that sounds as though I'm speaking out of turn, then I'm sorry, but I feel VERY strongly about drivers who think these sort of CRIMES are just a bit of a joke.
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #17 on: Jul 24th, 2007, 1:24pm » |
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tiberius, i think you're straying from the original topic, but i totally agree with what you say about speed/dangerous driving.
i agree with the original post; so what if you lose your job. if you've been caught enough times speeding a few over, jumping lights etc to bump up your points tally to a ban, then you're an idiot, you've had enough warning. if you're driving is so bad you get banned for one offence, then again you're an idiot and shouldnt be on the road.
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DazRSK
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #18 on: Jul 24th, 2007, 1:50pm » |
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I think most people would agree that 144mph in this country is at best, irresponsible. At worst, the guy's licence should be thrown away forever and he should be thrown into the same place for a number of years.
You're not just sliding over the limit - you have to seriously be pushing on with full realisation that you are speeding and could kill yourself and other people. If someone stepped out into the outside lane at 80 into this guy's path, it's curtains!! In effect, it could be construed as manslaughter.
On the broader view though - do you think the speed limits in this country are set inappropriately, given that most of them are loosely based on street light gap or whether it's a motorway or dual-carriageway etc and were set over 40 years ago ?
To set the ball rolling - all schools should have a 20mph limit around them. The small hours on the most motorways - derestricted like in Germany.
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Scorpio_Mike
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Re: penalty points!
« Reply #19 on: Jul 24th, 2007, 4:48pm » |
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Good point.
I have felt for a long time that the speed limits in the UK need an overhaul. Most of them were 'Set in stone' so to speak when cars mainly had drum brakes operated by rods and cables and ABS hadn't even been thought of.
Yes, I agree with 20mph limits outside schools - BUT that should only apply at times when pupils are arriving and leaving - this is what they have in the USA and it works well.
Do you REALLY need 20mph limit outside a school at the weekends and school holidays ?
I also agree with 30mph limits in built-up areas but have to question the logic of 60mph ( derestricted ) zones where it is not possible to reach that speed safely - country lanes and such.
Why do we have rigid and not variable speed limits where it could be appropriate according to traffic conditions ?
Why are our speed limits set in 10mph increments ? I've driven in the USA a lot and they have 5mph increments - speed limits are set more appropriately and help traffic flow.
I've driven along 30mph roads where perhaps 35 would be perfectly OK and 40 mph roads where you have to think maybe a lower limit would be more appropriate.
Yes, I got caught speeding 25 years ago - once only. I learned my lesson and stick to limits now as I need my licence for my job. I realise it is no excuse but what do you expect if a 22 year old gets behind the wheel of a turbo'd XR3 ?
A chap I knew a long time ago managed to accumulate enough endorsements for a ban many years ago ( before the points system came in to place ) - 3 speeding offences in a month ! He managed to keep his licence by telling the court he would be unable to get to college to continue his courses without his licence ! The court let him carry on riding his motorcycle so he could continue his education. When he moved on to driving a car, he had quite a bit of trouble getting insurance as the brokers were convinced he should have been banned.
My big problem with speed cameras - they don't catch people for what amounts to PLAIN BAD DRIVING ! Overtaking on bends, double white lines etc...
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