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Topic: Number of distinct Ford keys (Read 802 times) |
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tlundkvi
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Ex. Scorpio 2.9 24V -95
Posts: 909
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Number of distinct Ford keys
« on: Jul 3rd, 2010, 9:24am » |
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Had a new key cut and got the number sequence as well. Six numbers, each 1-4. This makes only 4^6 = 4096 possible keys (1- no slope, 4 - full slope)! Or have I missed something? Have to admit it sounds pretty wild as all Fords shared this key type for decades on all models 
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Scorpio_Mike
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Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 & 2.8 Sierra XR4i 4x4
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #1 on: Jul 3rd, 2010, 9:44am » |
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Seem to recall a story many years ago about a guy who drove off in a Cortina...that wasn't his...same colour and model, same key fitted it...just so happened that in a large car park there was an identical car parked there and he thought it was his
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Star sign is Scorpio !
Sierra XR4i's are great...especially when fitted with 4WD
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tlundkvi
Full Member
Ex. Scorpio 2.9 24V -95
Posts: 909
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #2 on: Jul 3rd, 2010, 1:26pm » |
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Yes, no wonder the insurance companies pushed all manufacturers to use electronics in the keys. In Finland for example there has been no car theft of newer cars where either towing or grey market produced keys haven't been involved.
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
 
Posts: 2594
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #3 on: Jul 3rd, 2010, 8:22pm » |
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Yep six variations of only 1 - 4.
And then you get where a new key won't work an older lock or vice versa, just because of a tiny bit of wear. Or not as the case may be
Was considering replacing my passenger door keylock as none of the original keys will operate it.
But neither will they a new lock!
Bu-ut, a new key that came with a new ignition barrel years ago does work in it (the original), so now I carry two keys around
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Mike H
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #4 on: Jul 3rd, 2010, 8:24pm » |
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PS that same new key can also work the driver's door, but not the boot
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Mike H
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #5 on: Jul 4th, 2010, 1:03am » |
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My guess is that the number of variations may be lower at least for later locks as it seems likely there will always be at least 1 no 4 wafer fitted.
Pure guess work based on two designs of no 4 wafer indeed it may even reduce it to 3^6 (too tired to think it through at the moment, but I think the 4 with the short cutaway is effectively dead).
I posted a picture and some ramblings a while ago:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action= display;num=1190566940;start=8#8
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #6 on: Jul 4th, 2010, 10:14am » |
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Interesting that, and yes latest kit I got is as per right hand picture.
Also discovered the key can push a wafer around too far as opposed to not enough, so the cut-outs still won't line up for the rod to drop in. A bit of reworking with a needle file is a possibility but TBH I couldn't be asked by that stage especially as I found this new key works in the old one (thus proving it's virtually "as new" already so nothing basically wrong with it after all)
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Mike H
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #7 on: Jul 4th, 2010, 12:57pm » |
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With the exception of the 4 with the reduced cutaway they should be able to travel too far.
That is why a worn lock catches because the soft part of the lock (turned by the tip of the key) allows the key & therefore the wafers to travel too far.
The reduced cutaway on the 4 helps reduce the effects of wear because it applies the turning force to the plug in a better way than the tip of the key can.
With a worn key however the wafers don't turn enough. I suspect a lot of wear on a key is caused by keys rubbing together in one’s pocket rather than by use.
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #8 on: Jul 4th, 2010, 1:34pm » |
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With regard the number of distinct combinations, If it is the case later locks always have a 4 wafer it’s not as bad as 3^6 but you would obviously need to remove any key cut-out variations that don’t have a 4 in them.
It is possible that some keys can open 2 locks. For example a 143231 key can open a 244342 lock but not the other way round, that is because the 3 slot on the key turning a short cut-out 4 wafer sets the lock off too early so the other positions now need to be cut to the next depth to compensate.
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tlundkvi
Full Member
Ex. Scorpio 2.9 24V -95
Posts: 909
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #9 on: Jul 4th, 2010, 9:23pm » |
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If one has to be a 4, this leaves 1*4^5 = 1024
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #10 on: Jul 5th, 2010, 3:21am » |
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I don’t think that’s right, my somewhat shaky prediction is 3361 but I don’t know what the formula is.
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #11 on: Jul 5th, 2010, 11:47am » |
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I’ll revise that to 3367
I wrote out the combinations for 1,2,3, & 4 wafers (well 4 was an expansion of a block of 64) & looked for a pattern.
(4^6) – (3^6) seems to work
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Highlander
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Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #12 on: Jul 5th, 2010, 12:01pm » |
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Bring back the old ones that used to open everything
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #13 on: Jul 5th, 2010, 12:21pm » |
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You've probably got enough keys to open everything 
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gozz
Senior Member
Been around awhile
Posts: 3475
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #14 on: Jul 5th, 2010, 12:23pm » |
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I had a Honda Actyvan in the early 80s,went to post some letters at the main Post Office and locked the keys in the ignition.Stood deciding on the best course of action,when a man on a scaffolding called down,"locked your keys in ?",yep.
He came down off the scaffolding and unlocked the van with his Honda motorbike key,a perfect fit !!
GOZZ.
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Number of distinct Ford keys
« Reply #15 on: Jul 5th, 2010, 1:51pm » |
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And the farce some years ago when you could buy a new key in Halfords if you locked yourself out
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Mike H
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