Author |
Topic: Any domestic electricians here? (Read 35632 times) |
|
ro284
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
 
Posts: 508
|
 |
Any domestic electricians here?
« on: Mar 28th, 2011, 2:12pm » |
 Quote  Modify
|
Have had a tricky customer and need advice, i am a Retired electrician, beware the lovely lady customer with a nice smile, and if possible do not try to avoid an oncoming snog! bichity or what
|
|
 IP Logged |
Bob Dorset
|
|
|
Baz
Moderator
Senior Member
S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
Posts: 4009
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #1 on: Mar 28th, 2011, 7:52pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I have a couple of electricians who work for me; one is part P certified. What is the problem?
I too am an electrician by trade, but worked on big projects like Selafield and Kelloggs etc..... I am not legally allowed to fit an outside light to my own house these days!
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
ro284
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 508
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #2 on: Mar 28th, 2011, 8:23pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Bit of a long story Baz, my now ex customer, has bounced a cheque on me, because I mentioned the Supplementary protective bonding, in the bathroom when changing taps! unfortunately I have always simplified this for the customer by calling it ‘cross bonding! (From the dark ages) so the self cert guy who took over the job from me at her command has started dictating regs for her to use to avoid paying me! the property was signed off 10 years ago as 16th edition, and it remains so, however he states that I read 17th edition as equipotential bonding may not be required in all circumstances, Well I would say that without bringing the entire installation up to 17th ed, i-e replace consumer unit, and fit Full rcd protection for all circuits, this is not the correct information! it either has to be 16th or 17th, not a mixture of the two, I would also say that the way he has described this as equipoptential bonding, he is talking about the Main Earth Bonding, which is nothing to do with the supplementary protective bonding in the bathroom! This is item one, what would you think? Thanks Bob
|
|
IP Logged |
Bob Dorset
|
|
|
Matt
Senior Member
Manual'd and a 4.0 in the making
Posts: 2816
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #3 on: Mar 29th, 2011, 6:55pm » |
Quote Modify
|
i was 16th and now 17th
but the way we do it at work is
if an installation was done under 16th then certain things were advised like supplementary bonding not mandatory like they are now in the 17th but in both cases the main earth must have the metallic ID tag on it
when doing the 17th course it was hammered into us all "bond everything" especially in bathrooms and kitchens
if a 16th installation is modified under 17th it must have the colour change warning sticker and the colours them selves sticker
and a 17th must be done in new colours, no reusing of the old cables
|
|
IP Logged |
 
FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham
|
|
|
ro284
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 508
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #4 on: Mar 29th, 2011, 8:21pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Thanks Baz & Matt. just to say iv'e done all sorts over the years, after a 7 year apprenticeship. authorised to 33k to work in Oil refineries, M.O.D. Power Stations, Airports, Schools colleges, hospitals, thousands of houses, And specialised machinery for export. Yachts, more houses, but that suddenly seems a long time ago, anyway for some reason the customer did not appreciate my advice on the supplymentary protective bonding in her bathroom, for her welfare! when i changed the bath taps. and is trying to rubbish everything i say, to try and save a few quid, must admit it really peed me off! she appears to be taking advice from a certified guy, however from the way she copies and pastes what she says he said, i think she is missing out the important parts, or he does not know the regs he is refering to, i don't want to bore you guys, but this has done me some harm. what i hope to achieve is to write to her to call her bluff, by informing her of the correct interpretation of the reg,s. then take her to Court, to get the money. trouble is iv'e been out of this sort of work for so long, everythings changed, for instance 'He supposedly say's! but this may be her trying to mis-interpret what he says (in a copied paragragh) equipotential bonding may not be required in all circumstances! if you type in search 'equipotential bonding,' this refers to the Main bonding, to incoming Gas, & water pipes in the mains cupboard,Which is absolutely essential! not what she thinks is in the bathroom! there's more!
|
|
IP Logged |
Bob Dorset
|
|
|
tonyboy
Full Member
black2.924Vcoss ( No More )
  
Posts: 998
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #5 on: Mar 29th, 2011, 9:40pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Hello, I only done the first year at tech college 236 part 1 about 15 years ago, so 16th edition. And i seem to remember the lecturer saying that everything metal in the bathroom must be cross bonded. hot, cold pipes radiator and even window frames that were made from metal..........
|
|
IP Logged |
I think i'm going, erm what do you call it..... Senial.... 
|
|
|
ro284
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 508
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #6 on: Mar 29th, 2011, 10:14pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Thanks for reply Tony, thats similar to me i never got as far as 17th edition, and have always done 'cross bonding' in the bathroom, everything metal bonded, now apparently refered to as 'supplementary protective bonding' however as far as i'm concerned, whatever name you give it it must be there!
Please note the following==
Originally posted by: later!
So where does the expression "cross bonding" come from?
It makes me cross when I see it, even crosser when I am told it's required.
17 March 2010 10:04 AM
roc1
Posts: 6361
Joined: 03 October 2005 I am not sure why the nitpicking about the term 'cross bonding' it is a valid term and 'cross bonding of an array' has been around a long while, an array could be a group of gas pipes water pipes, conduits, or lead cables, metalwork, sink, etc ,in the High Voltage world, a group of ten lead sheathed cables in the ground could be cross bonded to an earth spike to bring them all to the same potential and keep the sheath voltages down, at the end of the day ‘supplementary equipotential bonding' and 'cross bonding' mean the same thing, bringing items to the same potential to minimise touch voltage, heat and induction, so I suppose it’s who you want to impress! Old school 'cross bonding' so the client understands the simplicity!
Or new school 'equipotential bonding' so the client does not understand this mysterious impressive scientific term, so you can charge more! ha ha
|
|
IP Logged |
Bob Dorset
|
|
|
gozz
Senior Member
Been around awhile
Posts: 3475
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #7 on: Mar 29th, 2011, 10:22pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Doesn't all this pertain to BS7671 ?, and is it necessary to retrofit 16th edition to comply with the 17th which is now three years old,thus the 18th will soon be upon us  .
Blimey I'm living in a dangerous old pad ,just like my Dad and Grandad,but then there was a marked lack of litigation,or perhaps we aren't as conductive as those for whom the barmy rules are designed ! Must get my little meter out and go round the old shack looking for leaks 
GGGGOZZ
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
ro284
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 508
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #8 on: Mar 30th, 2011, 7:55am » |
Quote Modify
|
Doesn't all this pertain to BS7671 ?,(YES) and is it necessary to retrofit 16th edition to comply with the 17th (PERSONALLY I DID NOT THINK THAT COULD BE DONE) MAY BE WRONG!! which is now three years old, thus the 18th will soon be upon us (YES IT WILL )However as a Skilled worker it is possible to carry out some electrical work, as defined by Building control, as either notifyable or non notifiable.
HOME ELECTRICAL SAFETY
AND NEW BUILDING REGULATIONS
Non – notifiable work: That is works which are very minor as detailed in Appendix A Table 1
Non – Notifiable Works (Extracted from Table 1) Part P Building Regulations. (As amended)
Work consisting of:
Replacing accessories such as socket outlets, control switches and ceiling roses,
(in other words Like for Like)
Replacing the cable for a single circuit only, where damaged, i.e. by fire, rodent or impact
Re-fixing or replacing the enclosures of existing installation components
Providing mechanical protection to existing fixed installations.
|
|
IP Logged |
Bob Dorset
|
|
|
Highlander
Moderator
Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #9 on: Mar 30th, 2011, 8:33am » |
Quote Modify
|
My knowledge on the subject is zero..but I have been in similar situations.
Inform the customer that you are willing to sit down and discuss the situation (with her and the new electrician) but make it VERY clear that you know you are in the right, you have sought both professional and legal advice and if needs be you are prepared to go to court to recover what you are due (a good bluff is required) the likelyhood is she and/or the other guy will back down.
On a different note, I saw you are retired.
Please appreciate I have no knowledge of the electrical industry but some professions cannot legally continue practising without the relevant insurances, memberships or updating of skills in place.
Dunno if thats of any use,
is there nothing wrong with your Scorpio we can fix?? 
|
|
IP Logged |
on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
|
|
|
|
ro284
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 508
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #10 on: Mar 30th, 2011, 9:24am » |
Quote Modify
|
is there nothing wrong with your Scorpio we can fix??
LOL, I Know it's a Scorpio forum, Thanks for advice,
What i should have said is i am retirement age, would be more accurate, I did not go on to study 17th edition much, because i changed my business, though still an electrician, i needed to be, because for a few years i developed my own business, repairing Washing machines, Dishwashers, including commercial machines, plus supplying, And have to say it worked very well for me, (certainly better that putting lightening conductors up huge refinery chimneys! after all where do you start on a stormy day! top or bottom? ) at one time contacted by yellow business pages, people who came to me to take photos and interview me at my home,which was a good recomendation, However i used to move these machines on my own and gave myeslf a hernia! so went back to doing odd jobs plumbing, decorating, odd electrical jobs, and was (still am) insured to do so.
Ok, one last question, if you have go to a small claims court, is there a time limit from when the client bounced a cheque? i have sat on this for 6 months already!
Thanks for your time guys, The next question will be about amy 24v
|
|
IP Logged |
Bob Dorset
|
|
|
ro284
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 508
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #12 on: Mar 30th, 2011, 2:38pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Thanks for that Highlander,
The car is a 97 estate in purple! i bought it off a guy called Scorpcos, just before xmas. in the for sale section 11.05.2010 with pics
|
|
IP Logged |
Bob Dorset
|
|
|
Baz
Moderator
Senior Member
S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
Posts: 4009
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #13 on: Mar 31st, 2011, 7:10am » |
Quote Modify
|
With regards to bonding, I always thought that the rules were changed becase of the advent of plastic water and gas pipes. back in my day, gas pipes were metal and ran right round the house which meant that everything it ran to like radiators etc. were effectively earthed and that cros bonding was an extra insurance policy.
Now, earth wires have to be run because there is no guarantee that the pipes are metal all over the house, or even where they enter the ground.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
ro284
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 508
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #14 on: Mar 31st, 2011, 9:52am » |
Quote Modify
|
Thanks Baz, I think as the gas and water do indeed now have plastic pipes in to the property, from the road. they still go to a metal Main stopthingy and Metal Gas meter, usually in to or close to the Meter cupboard, sometimes the incoming electric mains comes in via one of those recessed boxes with access from outside the building.with tails through the wall to the consumer unit, however i still believe the matal pipes need to be bonded inside the property. so that there is no possible difference in potential in any of the metal pipes in the property. This bonding was always known to me over the years as Main bonding, now called equipotential.
Bob.
|
|
IP Logged |
Bob Dorset
|
|
|
Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #15 on: Apr 3rd, 2011, 4:52pm » |
Quote Modify
|
May seem like a daft question, have you not got a solicitor you can discuss this with?
|
|
IP Logged |
Mike H
|
|
|
ro284
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 508
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #16 on: Jul 3rd, 2012, 11:18am » |
Quote Modify
|
Sorry to resurect this thread guys, thanks for help with this, I have developed a mental problem because of this woman,  i wake up every morning worrying about it and its not even a lot of money! i think its because i helped her at a low rate, and she bounced the cheque, i think because her attempted snog misfired, and made her bi-chy, backed up by her on/off husband, jealous of what i am able to do! There was no self cert guy IMO! i sorted out all the regs i was on about, in my un posted letter to her! the obvious was staring me in the face, 17 edition is known as As Gozz said, should read BS7671
2008, and you cant add bits of one regs to another to upgrade to 17th, The instalation is fully to 16th edition, it is the husband implying you can upgrade to 17th! that caused the problem! i have written thousands of notes about this, and wasted more time than the whole bloody job! it is rediculous now, my letter to her is over 20 pages long! and it's coming up to 2 years! i clearly need medical help, i think it may be because i went out of my way to help her, and she bounced a cheque out of spite!However the money for me is not that important! i constantly go over and over this in my head, i have more important things to think about!!
but i can offer advice, if a female appoaches, this may be at anytime and without warning or prior knowledge (even for the female!) if she launches herself at you for a snog, just go for it! if you don't you will end up like me trying to be as bi-chy as she is! and needing to see the head mending doctor! Pathetic i klnow! i can't believe it has got this bad, Take care out there guys! Regards Ro
|
|
IP Logged |
Bob Dorset
|
|
|
Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #17 on: Jul 4th, 2012, 1:47pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Long before this I'd have given it to the solicitor and let them deal with the aggro
|
|
IP Logged |
Mike H
|
|
|
gozz
Senior Member
Been around awhile
Posts: 3475
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #18 on: Jul 4th, 2012, 9:19pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Bob,I know retrospective wisdom is a marvellous thing,but you should have given her a bloody good seeing to until the cheque cleared,preferably in a secluded spot 
GOZZ.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
|
|
Re: Any domestic electricians here?
« Reply #19 on: Jul 5th, 2012, 12:10pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I have long formed the opinion that the only problem with selling goods or services to the public is, er, the public....
|
|
IP Logged |
Mike H
|
|
|
|
Home
Help
Search
Members
Login
Reply
Send Topic
Print