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Topic: 24v conversion (Read 588 times) |
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DT
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24v conversion
« on: Nov 13th, 2004, 8:34pm » |
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Hello- To any kind person who might be able to offer some advice.
I have just had a 1993(ish) 24v Cosworth fitted to my Capri. It fires up, and runs but there are a few things going on...
When started up it idles very very high... then slowly drops down to about 500 rpm... where it sounds like it just manages to keep itself running. It fluctuates up & down a fair bit. If revving the engine from under the bonnet, the throttle has full range of motion and feels and sounds ok-ish. However, when throttleing from in the car, the pedal seems to travel down.. then moments later the revs pick up. Even then, it feels like the pedal is very far down for the amount of revs achieved. If pressed slowly you can build the revs up, but if you give it a quick burst theres a delay, it then climbes up and then it drops very low then stabalises at around 500 again.
It is currently driving like a complete pig! It has hardly any power... just feels like its driving the car enough to move it around. Theres almost no accelleration- it just gradually builds up.
I am aware the computer may be wondering what the heck is going on- with the catalyst removed and so on... but I was advised that after a few miles it should work things out & settle down. Its done about 20 miles (the drive home).. and not alot since.
I was told something by one fella who deals with these engines..sounded intersting but I cannot remember exactly- something about when fitted, the second choke should have been held full open and the throttle readjusted..??.. or something along those lines..
I spoke with the guys who fitted it, and they werent aware of such a procedure. the last few 24v cosworths into capri's they have done have been fine. they are more than capable of the fitting and so on, but they dont really deal with these engines on a daily basis so they would look for info in tech manuals or on the net etc.
Anyway... If anyone knows or thinks they can suggest which components to check or the issue about the choke and so on, I would be grateful. The engine sounds smooth as anything and has excellent oil pressure. the one thing that may be relevant is that the Lambda sensor (passenger side downpipe) was from a later car which had 4 wires on it instead of 3. The guys fitting it understood the additional wire to be an extra earth wire. Im not 100% sure how the sensor was wired but by all accounts it was correct.
Any advice would be very much appreciated. I made a big decision fitting the Cossie, as the original plan was to fit a smallblock 5.7 Chevy v8, which the guys do all the time. I went for the Cossie option instead as I do drive the car a fair bit..so am hoping I can get running properly otherwise Im really in trouble!!
Thanks! D.
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Eric_R
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Cosworth Owner 1998 - 2006 & site co-founder
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Re: 24v conversion
« Reply #1 on: Nov 13th, 2004, 10:47pm » |
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DT,
What engine management system are you using for the engine. Is it the EECIV from the donor?
If so it sounds like the EECIV has invoked LOS - Limited Operation Strategy - in which timing is fixed at 10 DBTDC and fuelling is minimised to protect the catalysts - other wise known as limp-home mode.
What have you done about the TRS - the Transmission Range Sensor? (Sometimes called the PRNGL switch) The Cosworth EECIV expects to be connected to an auto gearbox and unless you tell the EECIV that its in Park it will be trying to contact the solenoids in the gearbox - if it can't find any it will believe there's a catastrophic failure and invokes LOS.
Or perhaps you have sorted the TRS ?
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DT
Newbie
Posts: 11
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Re: 24v conversion
« Reply #2 on: Nov 13th, 2004, 11:46pm » |
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Hello Eric
Thanks for your help mate. Yes I was advised of 'Limp Home mode' & it does indeed seem thats the mode its in!! The gearbox I have is the standard Ford 2.8i Box (Type 9 I Think).. I beleive the sensors have all just been removed.
The guys have done a few of these and they've all idled erratically for a while then settled down. I am a little concerned that mine is in Limp Home Mode and Im wondering how to get it out!!
The ECU is from the donor car (Granada Cosworth).. and its been wired up the same way they've done the others. Do these ECU's actually adjust when they realize there are no catalysts & Gearbox sensors etc...?..
I am happy that the engine seems smooth and has good pressure, so thats a main concern out of the way.. but whats your opinion on the engine operating as it is? A guy who does these conversions into 4x4 Sierras near Southend, says that after a good 50 mile run or so it will run normally...?... I'd appreciate your view on this and the throttle/choke issue he spoke of.
Thanks again for taking the time to assist, you can be sure your help is much appreciated.
Cheers mate.
D.
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: 24v conversion
« Reply #3 on: Nov 14th, 2004, 5:53pm » |
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Hi
Well if they have wired up every thing correctly & sorted the park switch it may be the ECU trying to sort it's self out but sounds worse than it should be. They usaly tend to stall alot, be a bit down on power & a bit rougth for about 50 - 100 miles. Never heard of the throttle thing, the screw stop is a factory adjustment & is best left alone. Try disconnecting all power to the car for 30 mins, that will reset the ECU to default then go for a drive & see what happens. You need todo 50 miles plus.
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Dave
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: 24v conversion
« Reply #4 on: Nov 14th, 2004, 6:00pm » |
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I forgot to say, you need to post on the interford forum in the Sierra section. That is where all the 24V Sierra's & Capri owners hang out. They are the BOA Cosworth specialists. This site deals with the BOB version.
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Dave
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Eric_R
Administrator
Cosworth Owner 1998 - 2006 & site co-founder
Posts: 1792
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Re: 24v conversion
« Reply #5 on: Nov 14th, 2004, 7:22pm » |
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DT,
I'm not sure how your blokes have wired up the Transmission Range Sensor. Normally, when installing a manual gearbox this is connected up to tell the PCM that the car is in Park - then it doesn't check for any sensors - although it still runs at full power.
Make enquiries of the guys that have done this and ask if they Parked the TRS. If not I can tell you how to do it.
The other thought is that the PCM is missing a proper signal from one of the important sensors - the CKP or the CMP, for example. Either would invoke LOS.
Have you Star tested the PCM and recovered any fault codes? This would be the next step. The codes should tell you what has caused the LOS and give you somewhere to start.
Good luck.
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DT
Newbie
Posts: 11
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Re: 24v conversion
« Reply #6 on: Nov 14th, 2004, 7:42pm » |
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Thanks guys! I really appreciate your advice. I will explore ALL avenues you have suggested and post a message later in the week. Thanks again, you've been a great help.
Regards
~D~
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DT
Newbie
Posts: 11
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Re: 24v conversion
« Reply #7 on: Nov 18th, 2004, 1:35pm » |
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Hi Eric. yes if you could give me some info on parking the TRS I'd be grateful. the other conversions they have done were ones where they removed everything from the donor car at their premesis... So its highly likely the car would have been in park anyway.. (Dont know if this is relevant or not).
but my one was brought down as the engine only and the wiring and ecu etc.. so less was known. But in anycase, if you can advise.. we'll have a look at doing the TRS and seeing if it makes any difference.
I have disconnected power and reconnected but its still in LOS. Also If theres anything else you think is worth a bash then please let me know.
thanks mate.
~D~
(Anyone else reading feel free to chuck in aswell) 
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Eric_R
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Cosworth Owner 1998 - 2006 & site co-founder
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Re: 24v conversion
« Reply #8 on: Nov 18th, 2004, 6:54pm » |
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DT,
Yes, I think the fact that the other systems were dismantled complete is relevant. In this case the TRS would have been stripped from the autobox and merely left in place on the loom, and this would have registered the Park position without further work.
I am basing these instructions on the Scorpio A4LDe in the hope that they are the same as the Granada only a year before.
Look for a connector for the autobox with 4 wires. (The A4LDe has another connector for the 3rd and 4th shift solenoids but they only have 3 wires, so ignore them.)
You should find the four wires are coded:
Violet/black
Violet/blue - these wires are for the reverse lamps. They will be connected together (and showing +12v) when the TRS is in Reverse. Ignore these wires.
The other two are both Black/Blue. Connect these together and the PCM reads this as Park position.
Though if the car starts it might not be the TRS after all. In theory if the black/blue are not connected together the starter motor should not operate - unless you have bypassed the starter circuit in some way.
Have you Star-tested the PCM? See http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/star.htm
I recommend you do this as the EECIV will report what has caused the LOS. It will be in the form of a flashing light which you count to read the code(s). Once you have done this you'll know where to look. The data connector for the EECIV was by the battery on the Granada and most small garages would be able to read the codes for you.
Good luck. Let us know how you get on.
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DT
Newbie
Posts: 11
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Re: 24v conversion
« Reply #9 on: Nov 18th, 2004, 7:12pm » |
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Thanks Eric mate.
Thats a great help. I will pass this info on to the guys and get the car down there to check things out. I know they have already told me they can do the test for the flashing light to try and establish what has invoked the LOS.
Thanks again mate, & I will indeed let you know how it goes.
Regards
~D~
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