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Topic: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder (Read 1433 times) |
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Baz
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Senior Member
S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
Posts: 4009
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Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« on: Jun 7th, 2005, 7:12pm » |
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I changed the front disks on my 1998 Cossie when I bought it back in September as my mechanic told me they were a bit thin. We put powertrain disks on and all was well. After a few months, I started to get a judder under braking and he reckoned they could be a faulty set so they were changed under warranty. After another few months, the same happened again so I went and bought a set of genuine Ford ones (off the shelf.....you could have knocked me down with a feather!!)
Now these have started to judder and I am at a loss as to what is causing this. I have had the calipers checked and they are fine. Anyone have any more ideas?
Thanks
Baz
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Lee
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2.9 12v ultima the mutts
Posts: 448
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #1 on: Jun 7th, 2005, 7:20pm » |
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are you a heavy braker if so would vented ones be any better ??
Lee
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Baz
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S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #2 on: Jun 7th, 2005, 8:44pm » |
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Not really Lee, I put 3 times the mileage on my last 1998 Cossie and only changed those disks once when I first got it. I am at a loss and I want to sort it before I go away
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scorpio_man
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Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #3 on: Jun 7th, 2005, 9:06pm » |
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hi barry
when you stop, do you hold the brakes on tight? what i do is stop an extra couple of feet away, then roll forward a wee bit. never had a problem with new ford discs. that's about 27k miles (2 years). i take it you cleaned the hubs before fitting the new discs?
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granorpio
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1998 Silver Facelift Cosworth
Posts: 589
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #4 on: Jun 7th, 2005, 9:36pm » |
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Hi Baz 
Only once have I had problem with juddering brakes and that was on my Granada. After 130K on it's original disks I changed them for non-geniuine ones and within months had to change them again for genuine due to warping. Ford disks I have found, unless abused, fairly bullet proof.
With this in mind have you thought of testing the ABS sensors as one of these may have developed a fault under certain load conditions and fooling the car's brain.
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/abssystem.htm
I mention this as my brother-in-law has had a similiar problem recently with his Laguna and Renault diagnosed this to be the problem rather than the disks.
Hope this helps 
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- Mike -
So nearly said "goodbye" but now Scorpio will see another day, alongside the replacement! eek!
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ren
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95 N 2.9 24v Cossie Estate
Posts: 480
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #5 on: Jun 7th, 2005, 10:43pm » |
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Baz
Is the Scorpio brake manual wrong then
cus it states vented discs front and rear
for the 24v or is it your choice to have solids fitted
Ren
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Baz
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S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #6 on: Jun 7th, 2005, 11:02pm » |
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They are vented Ren, they are the genuine Ford Cossie disks
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ren
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95 N 2.9 24v Cossie Estate
Posts: 480
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #7 on: Jun 7th, 2005, 11:40pm » |
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Baz
Sorry it was your reply to Lee
I read It as you had fitted solids
as Lee had suggested useing vented discs
Ren
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nodge
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I'm a YaBB newbie!
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #8 on: Jun 7th, 2005, 11:51pm » |
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Might be worth checking for play at the ball joints Baz. I had really bad judder (felt as a wobble through the steering wheel) and I had new ball joints fitted and there is now only a slight trace of it. I think the discs are probably slightly warped and so I will get round to replacing them but I was amazed at the difference the new ball joints (complete with arms and bushes) made.
Nodge
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Baz
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S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #9 on: Jun 8th, 2005, 12:14am » |
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Cheers Nodge. I'll get my man to check tomorrow!!
Baz
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Eddie
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Must try a different shampoo!
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #10 on: Jun 8th, 2005, 4:04am » |
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You can check the disks by jacking,remove the wheel and put on a wheel nut and thick washer(s) to clamp the disk up then rotate (the disk!) and look for/measure the run out.
If all ok then look to the suspension parts,bushes,ball joints etc.
Wear in these parts cause juddering as braking takes up the slack then releases it again when the disc starts moving through the pads,slack is released and so on.
Its not until new pads/discs bed in that the brakes start working effectively,its at this point the juddering starts.
Is the car on its original front wishbones
eddie
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mr._floppy
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Posts: 100
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #11 on: Jun 8th, 2005, 11:22am » |
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Is the judder predominately through the steering wheel ?
I know it sounds daft but what about the rear discs ?
they wear out too.
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Baz
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S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #12 on: Jun 8th, 2005, 8:18pm » |
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Mr F, the rear pads were only changed last week. It is through the steering wheel and does feel like disks again. But I have to find out what is causing it
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Snoopy
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #13 on: Jun 9th, 2005, 7:13am » |
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Have you changed the pads every time you change the discs?
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Baz
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S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #14 on: Jun 9th, 2005, 8:37am » |
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Not the first time but we did the second time Dave
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Snoopy
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #15 on: Jun 9th, 2005, 10:05am » |
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OK have read of this and the associated pages .... May just throw some light on the problem, but it may just be THIS
Also Have a read of THIS
and some of the associated pages.....
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Geoff_W
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98 Ulti2.5tdi Auto
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #16 on: Jun 9th, 2005, 11:14am » |
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My ongoing judder problem turned out to be bushes after four sets of disks in 30k miles no problems since. I seem to remember that Dave or Bill pointed it out as a check worth doing but that strand was back in 2003.
Can't be more precise as I have slept a couple of times since then.
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dart
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #17 on: Jun 10th, 2005, 9:30pm » |
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Some good info Eric R once told me! and it saves him writting it all out again  .
"I'd be a little cautious about after-market brake disks and pads. The ABS system module has the specs of the standard brake disks and pads built into its program, so that it can keep each wheel at the maximum retardation rate by varying the brake pressure applied. If you fit other types of brake disks and pads you may cause over-braking - this will cause ABS confusion and your braking distance may actually increase ... so bear that in mind.
The standard Ford disks should give no trouble. They are vented, of very good quality and well machined and they match the exact specifications of the original part. If you 'season' them properly when they are new and bear a couple of points in mind when you are driving they should last 60 or 70K miles with no problems at all - mine have.
The brake disk care points are:
1. When first fitted and or/with new pads avoid heavy braking for at least 100 miles.
2. You may consider 'conditioning' the new disks after the first 100 miles. On a road where it is safe to do so brake down from 70 to 40 gently at first and then again with gradually firmer pressure and end with the brakes off while accelerating smoothly again. This will heat up the disks and allow them to cool evenly, relieving any internal stresses built up by manufacture or fitting.
3. After any emergency braking to a standstill the brake disks will probably be almost white hot - as soon as possible take your foot off the brake and hold the car on the handbrake (or better still in P for autos). This removes the brake pads from the disks and allows the disk to cool more evenly without hot or cold spots.
4. If after emergency braking the brakes 'judder', go through the conditioning routine again (as at 2) because this may relieve the heat-stresses in the disks."
« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2005, 1:32pm by Eric_R »
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WAYNE
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #18 on: Jun 14th, 2005, 6:14pm » |
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Hi all
Seem to have the same problem as Baz.
1. Changed the front link rods in June 2004, no juddering
2. Changed front and rear disks and pads in August 2004, no juddering
3. Slight juddering started in March 2005
4. Changed front disks with old ones in May 2005, still juddering
5. Changed both wishbones and bushes and put new disks back on in June 2005, better but slight juddering still.
Does anyone know why this is happening? I am running out of parts to change!
Could this be the spindle rods/track rod ends to the rack or do disks require changing again?
Regards
Wayne
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David_South_West
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24V............ .Goodness
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Re: Ongoing Problem with front brake judder
« Reply #19 on: Jun 14th, 2005, 6:52pm » |
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Since you have tried just about every thing else could it be a tyre problem.my father had a volvo estate with similar problems..found two flat spots on the tyres. At speed didn't notice any problems but when braking there was a noticable judder.
Can you feel judder through pedal..could be abs playing up . Could be on just one front wheel .try cleaning sensors.
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