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Topic: Auto box not changing up when driving hard (Read 946 times) |
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roger_howes
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1997 24v Ultima Estate (aka 'Money Eater')
Posts: 117
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Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« on: Aug 11th, 2005, 11:27am » |
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Hello all,
When accelerating hard/hardish (I have a 24v), either in E or S modes, the engine will rev up to the red line and then power falls off. I have to ease off the accelerator before the gearbox will change up, then off we go again. This is not 'foot to the floor' acceleration, just something harder than I would normally use.
I cannot say for sure in which gear(s) this occurs, but it seems to be around the top of 2nd or 3rd.
Unfortunately this problem means that I cannot enjoy the performance of the engine when asking more from it than normal.
The car was completely checked out recently by a specialist engine/auto electronics company and showed no fault codes at all, in fact it was described as perfect!
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Roger.
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #1 on: Aug 11th, 2005, 11:57am » |
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hi there
have you cleaned the MAF?
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cleanmaf.htm
what about the gearbox level?
when you had it checked, did they take a reading from the MAF? was it in spec?http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/maftest.htm
too many times, people have had their cars checked, told they were fine and they weren't! easy enough to have the equipment to check things out, harder to know what it all means when trying to diagnos a problem!
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roger_howes
Full Member
1997 24v Ultima Estate (aka 'Money Eater')
Posts: 117
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #2 on: Aug 11th, 2005, 2:37pm » |
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Hello scorpio_man,
I checked the fluid level and it appears to be the correct level and colour. I hope to check the MAF sensor w/e. I have looked at the instructions at the end of your link. I have noticed recently also, that the gear changes are not quite as smooth as they used to be - nothing bad, still quite good in fact, but just a slight deterioration. Assuming correct fluid level, could this be down to the MAF sensor too?
I can't tell you exactly what the auto electrician checked (he's well known in my area and used by all the major franchises), just that he gave the car electronics a clean bill of health after changing the speed sensor - the one that works with the overdrive ON/OFF control and changes the gearbox up into 4th at 50mph - that's paraphrasing his description.
Thanks.
Roger.
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #3 on: Aug 11th, 2005, 3:58pm » |
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hi there
was your speedo playing up? i take it was the V.S.S that was changed.
yes, the MAF has been found to play a big part in the gear selection process. why i ask is because i worked on a scorpio which had a faulty MAF, yet produced no error code for it until un-pluged. as i said earlier, you need to know what to look for. just ask eric. the obd-2 pages didn't happen overnight! 
keep us posted how you get on.
btw, did you check the level when warm and the engine running?
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roger_howes
Full Member
1997 24v Ultima Estate (aka 'Money Eater')
Posts: 117
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #4 on: Aug 11th, 2005, 4:35pm » |
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Hello scorpio_man,
No trouble with the speedo, but the overdrive ON/OFF switch was not working. He found a wire to the switch had been cut! and the speed sensor not working (I have had the car just over a year, but getting the overdrive switch working had to wait until the more urgent jobs had been done done).
I have driven this car hard before, but never had trouble with the box failing to change up correctly until recently - so something has changed.
I checked the autobox fluid level with the engine not running and cold. I will have a go at checking the level properly over the weekend.
I will keep you posted.
Many thanks.
Roger.
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #5 on: Aug 11th, 2005, 7:55pm » |
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hi there
have the car up to temp, then cycle through the gears 3 times each with the engine running at all times. then check the level, again with the engine running.
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roger_howes
Full Member
1997 24v Ultima Estate (aka 'Money Eater')
Posts: 117
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #6 on: Aug 12th, 2005, 8:55am » |
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Hello scorpio_man,
I will try to do it tonight when I get home from work, and clean the MAF sensor too. I was going to do it on Sunday, but Sunday has suddenly become full, and Saturday I'm working, so will let you know how I get on next week.
Many thanks.
Roger.
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roger_howes
Full Member
1997 24v Ultima Estate (aka 'Money Eater')
Posts: 117
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #7 on: Aug 15th, 2005, 9:04am » |
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Hello. Partial update.
Cleaned the MAF sensor, which did not look sooty.
Checked the autobox fluid level. The fluid is sitting about 1/8th of an inch above the MAX mark, just about where the dipstick wire attaches to the shaped end piece that sits in the fluid.
Although I used the car on the motorways on Saturday, I never got the chance to put my foot down enough times to really check. I either had a full car, or most of the time it was torrential rain - visibility down to about 30 yards and the road surface simply awash!
The times I did manage to try, the box appeared to change up somewhere about 5750rpm, but I was not really driving hard, so I will need to try again on better roads.
The car is in for tracking check today, so hope to have another try on the way home and report back.
Roger.
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paulscorp
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #8 on: Aug 15th, 2005, 12:57pm » |
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Hi Roger,
I was speaking with someone the other day regarding problems with the scorpio auto boxes, and was told that there is a filter in the sump of these boxes that can get clogged and therefore reduce oil pressure to the vital parts of the box, dont know if scorpio-man has heard of this, maybe he can shed more light? ? ?
Regards
Paul
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #9 on: Aug 15th, 2005, 2:00pm » |
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hi there
that'll be this then
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/aboxfilters.htm
not sure if a pressure drop would cause this, though. this would give an error code.
in this case there was no error codes, but unless you check the MAF running, it might look ok. again, only my opinion. 
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roger_howes
Full Member
1997 24v Ultima Estate (aka 'Money Eater')
Posts: 117
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #10 on: Aug 16th, 2005, 8:29am » |
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Hello scorpio_man & Paul,
Thanls for your suggestions.
I managed to put my foot down hard enough only once on the way home last night and the box changed up OK at around 5700/5800 - difficult to see exactly when you're haring like mad down a narrow, twisty B road!
Just about all of my route is B and C roads, so it is not possible to drive the car hard. I will take a longer route home tomorrow that takes in more A road and try again and hope I don't get a whole load of slow traffic in front of me.
Still, so far, so good! I will keep my fingers crossed.
Will let you know what happens.
Roger.
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roger_howes
Full Member
1997 24v Ultima Estate (aka 'Money Eater')
Posts: 117
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #11 on: Aug 18th, 2005, 8:43am » |
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Update.
I have managed to drive it hard a few times over the last couple of days and the box has changed up OK each time, always around 5700/5800 rpm - except when driving less aggressively of course, when it changes up at much lower revs.
I need to get it on the A50 (not too far from me) where it is a dead straight dual carriageway with no fixed speed cameras, no junctions for miles, and very few bridges where portable speed cameras can be placed. I want to start slowly in Sports mode, put my foot to the floor, and see how the box behaves then!
I have also noted a difference in gear selection when changing up, an improvement, as I thought that before it was always a bit later changing up than I would have liked - usually making me push the pedal harder than I considered necessary. I just thought it was the settings for Economy mode, but perhaps not!
But so far, encouraging. All I did was clean the MAF, which didn't actually look as though it needed it.
Thanks for your suggestions - will keep you posted.
Roger.
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roger_howes
Full Member
1997 24v Ultima Estate (aka 'Money Eater')
Posts: 117
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #12 on: Aug 31st, 2005, 9:00am » |
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Hello all,
I've given the car some good hard runs over the last week or so and the problem has not occurred again!
Also, as I mentioned in an earlier update to this problem, the gearbox is also changing up much better.
All in all, the car is now behaving itself and giving a much better drive.
Cleaning a MAF sensor that looked perfectly clean in the first place has obviously had a beneficial effect!
Roger.
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km449
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #13 on: Sep 1st, 2005, 9:58pm » |
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What's this 5700 RPM for a gear change ?
Or is just me stuck with a lowly 2.3!!! 5700 is like saying is 29 o'clock!!!
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Paul B
Senior Member
'98 24V Ultima saloon
Posts: 2442
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #14 on: Sep 1st, 2005, 10:31pm » |
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on Sep 1st, 2005, 9:58pm, km449 wrote:What's this 5700 RPM for a gear change?
Or is just me stuck with a lowly 2.3!!! 5700 is like saying is 29 o'clock!!! |
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Can't guarantee it on a 2.3 but press the "S" button, floor the accelerator and see where it changes.
On the 24v its just shy of 6000rpm
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Pegasus
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24V Cosworth Ultima Born: Sept 97, sold Aug 23
Posts: 742
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #15 on: Sep 2nd, 2005, 12:47pm » |
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Too right Paul B Quote:Can't guarantee it on a 2.3 but press the "S" button, floor the accelerator and see where it changes.
On the 24v its just shy of 6000rpm |
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 but you may have to strain your eyes to see the rev counter 
whenever I've floored it my head seems to be stuck to the headrest
I don't do it too often but it is fun
Paul
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Octavian_P
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Posts: 1126
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Re: Auto box not changing up when driving hard
« Reply #16 on: Sep 3rd, 2005, 7:41pm » |
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If 6000 rpm sounds much than what do you say about almoust 7000 and it's a "lowly" 2.3 
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2.0 16V Ultima|2.3 16V Ghia|2.9 24V Cosworth Ghia
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