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Topic: Starting problem (Read 1163 times) |
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
 
Posts: 296
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Starting problem
« on: Oct 10th, 2005, 12:17pm » |
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Hi,
I'm having trouble getting it started. First thing this morning it was fine but now it's like treacle; the starter can only just turn. It does start but I'm amazed cos it's turning so slowly.
The battery condition appears fine (12.4v with the engine off - dropping to 9.5 when starter is turning).
Any ideas?
Thanks
Mike
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Octavian_P
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1126
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #1 on: Oct 10th, 2005, 1:03pm » |
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Battery is low on 9.5 v !!!, electric modules fail to work, or they reset. Try with another battery
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2.0 16V Ultima|2.3 16V Ghia|2.9 24V Cosworth Ghia
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Dave
Senior Member
Tourmallard 24v (ex-owner)
Posts: 1984
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #2 on: Oct 10th, 2005, 1:03pm » |
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Mike,
first thing that springs to mind is to check any earth straps. 9.5v seems a bit low so either the battery is not healthy or the voltage is disappearing!
Cheers
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Life after the Scorpio ain't easy..
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Octavian_P
Senior Member
Posts: 1126
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #3 on: Oct 10th, 2005, 1:04pm » |
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Good one Dave, could be a bad battery connection as well, or maybe oxidezed
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2.0 16V Ultima|2.3 16V Ghia|2.9 24V Cosworth Ghia
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #4 on: Oct 10th, 2005, 3:33pm » |
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Ok, I've replaced the battery (having thoroughly cleaned all the connectors etc) and the "starter turning in treacle" problem is exactly the same.
I think the low voltage reading I get when the starter motor is under (probably an excessive) load must be a reflection of that load; although I'm not an electrician so that's just a guess.
I'm assuming that the starter motor is failing in some way and should be replaced; especially since it started happening suddenly.
Any other ideas or do you think I should go ahead and replace it?
Thanks again.
Mike
Oh PS Does anyone know how to replace the starter; I've never done it?
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #6 on: Oct 10th, 2005, 4:41pm » |
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Thanks everyone, I'm going to get a starter motor tomorrow and (assuming it lasts til the weekend) I'll get underneath and check the wiring before replacing it.
Thanks for the pointer to the diagrams etc Scorpio_Man; mine's an lpg too btw!
Mike
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Octavian_P
Senior Member
Posts: 1126
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #7 on: Oct 10th, 2005, 5:16pm » |
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Ok then if the battery is good, and connectors are clean, then either it's a power supply cable that it's gone loose, a ground cable that it lost connection, or the worst part....the starter motor. I haven't dismabled a scorp starter till now but it should have a "bendic" system ( a kind of relay). After a long period of usage the contacts in the bendic beeing exposed to high currents and sparks gather a "carbonic" surface that is a bad condctor. Also the "bendic" system uses some puleys and some kind of bearings. After long periods of time the bearings lose the lubrification, also the starter motor has a pair of colector brushes, thoes get the wear and thear. They are made of a material similar to a pencil (grafiti, coal based), in principle thoes can be changed. If all the above mechanisms are checked and fixed you obtain a reconditioned starter motor......
Hope it heped you a bit
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2.0 16V Ultima|2.3 16V Ghia|2.9 24V Cosworth Ghia
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #8 on: Oct 11th, 2005, 7:42am » |
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Has anyone replaced their starter motor? Is it straight forward or are there any wrinkles that I should know about?
Thanks
Mike
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Daven
Senior Member
I'm a cheeky Boy! (Simmos fan club)
Posts: 1117
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #9 on: Oct 11th, 2005, 12:32pm » |
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I have - apart from getting to a nut on a bracket behind the starter (which I bent out of the way to remove the starter) no real problems!
Goes without saying that it would be easier if you can get it on ramps 
The new starter did not need the bracket I had to bend - that was two years ago and has been fine since!
Also ensure the electrical connections are sitting correctly and are tight - I thought mine was until I got the needle flicker symptoms!!
Good luck 
Dave
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #10 on: Oct 11th, 2005, 5:35pm » |
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Ok, thanks guys, I think I'm ready for it. Always fun doing something new!
Will let you know how it goes.
Mike
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #11 on: Oct 12th, 2005, 12:53pm » |
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Ok, I got a chance to get underneath this morning and (once I found it - lol) I cleaned up the exterior of the connections and was able to tighten them slightly.
This gave an improvement in the cranking and a cranking voltage of between 10.5 and 11.
I guess this points to dirty connections and I suppose I ought to remove them and clean the mating surfaces properly.
Allparts, who sold me the starter said I could use "Copper grease" when remaking the connections; does this sound ok?
Thanks
Mike
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Simmo
Administrator
I'm an OAP !
Posts: 5508
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #12 on: Oct 12th, 2005, 1:01pm » |
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Certainly prevents corrosion. Usually smeared on the back plate of brake pads to prevent squeal and even more so on the hub when re-fitting alloy wheels to save them corroding on. If you are lucky you can get a small tube from the factors as a 'garage'size tin is quite costly.
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #13 on: Oct 15th, 2005, 3:53pm » |
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Ok, another question.
Where does the battery negative lead connect to the car and so become the "earth"?
I suddenly realised that I hadn't checked this connection and I can't seem to find it.
Thanks
Mike
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #15 on: Oct 18th, 2005, 9:31am » |
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Yes thanks, I looked at that. Thing is I'm not sure from the diagram whether the negative lead from the battery goes directly to starter or to a point on the car and thence to the starter.
Does anyone know
Thanks
Mike
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Simmo
Administrator
I'm an OAP !
Posts: 5508
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #16 on: Oct 18th, 2005, 2:30pm » |
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Look carefully at the pictures. There are two or three black leads on the negative terminal. If you remove the bulkhead panel as indicated,(a 30second job) you will see the leads head towards the nearside wing but then are passed down through a large grommet and one of them turns back towards the engine and is secured to the main bulkhead cross-member by a 'torx' screw. This is visible in the photo, after the bulkhead panel is shown,and can be seen just below and to the right of the silver air con pipework. On my 2ltr there is also an adjacent 'braided' strap.
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Mike_Floutier
Full Member
'97 2.3 Ultima saloon lpg
Posts: 296
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #17 on: Nov 17th, 2005, 10:21pm » |
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Well, it carrird on working for a while but yesterday afternoon it died completely so I had to go back to Allparts and ask for the starter back.
I spent this morning fitting it (thanks to you guys!) and it works beautifully now.
Only thing I'd mention is that you need a long 7mm socket for removing the studs/bolts that the support bracket uses; worth checking in advance that you've got one - I didn't; lol.
Thanks again guys!
Mike
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