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Topic: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Again!! (Read 3255 times) |
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Baz
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Senior Member
S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
Posts: 4009
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Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Again!!
« on: Nov 1st, 2005, 5:20pm » |
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Despite having changed the thermostat, hoses, cap, bottle and fitted a new radiator back in May, I have had the the car on the ramps at my mates garage today and discovered that this radiator has ballooned by about 1.75 inches and has burst off the straps at the front and back and is now losing water at quite an alarming rate; more so than the one it replaced!!
The thermostat theory may need to be revised unless anyone knows better!!
Thanks to Bill at Watson Automotive who has agreed to replace the ballooned rad and is also going to sort me out a complete alloy unit that should really really really sort out the problem!!
Baz
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #1 on: Nov 1st, 2005, 5:56pm » |
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Hmmm this is odd, so even if you replace everything that was reguarded as a possible cause the rad still goes. Maybe something to do with as the system gets older it becomes less efficient as the rubbish builds up & partly bad design causing it 
Odd that it is not a issue with the BOA Mk3 engine but that uses a different layout & rad so could that be the reason
I myself have only found 1 good rad from 8 BOB 24v Cosworths. It is very common.
Baz have you got that rad I sent you?
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Dave
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Baz
Moderator
Senior Member
S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
Posts: 4009
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #2 on: Nov 1st, 2005, 7:47pm » |
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Dave,
Yes I got it thanks....I never got round to letting you know. My car is only a 1998 model and only had 58,000 on when I got it and it has so far got through 4 radiators in less than 20,000 miles!! Thank god most were free or cheap!
Baz
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scorpio_man
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Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #3 on: Nov 1st, 2005, 8:19pm » |
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hi barry
what about wrong anti-freeze or the mix? can't think of anything else that you haven't changed! 
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Baz
Moderator
Senior Member
S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
Posts: 4009
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #4 on: Nov 1st, 2005, 8:41pm » |
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Filled it up each time with the right mix so can't be that either Andrew.....
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #5 on: Nov 1st, 2005, 10:01pm » |
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Well I have stripped a engine with a good rad & also a fair few now with blown rads. None of them show any signs of gasket failure or any signs of cooling problems apart from ballooned rads of course.
Next on my list will be to open up 2 thermostats.
1 from a ballooned car & the other from a good car to see if there is any difference.
Still the radiator saga continues . . . .
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Dave
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martin_rowe
Full Member
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Posts: 879
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #6 on: Nov 2nd, 2005, 8:43am » |
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remember the old days when all t/stats had a toggle pin, never bothered to look but is it possable to pop a 3mm hole through the stat plate, may be worth a try.
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Eric_R
Administrator
Cosworth Owner 1998 - 2006 & site co-founder
Posts: 1792
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #7 on: Nov 2nd, 2005, 3:25pm » |
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Baz,
Have you tested the old thermostat and the new one in water with a thermometer to see what temperature they open? Is there a difference? Is the new thermostat faulty? It has been known.
Another possibility is that the petrol mixture is weak - have you checked the long term fuel trims (LTFT)? If they are well to the positive then the fuelling is weak. Weak mixtures can hugely increase the amount of heat that has to be removed from the engine.
Is the EGR working correctly? If that is blocked off for any reason then the flame temperature at mid-throttle will be very high.
My own radiator has been changed - not for ballooning but for an internal leak that messed up my autobox - at 120,000 miles. No sign of ballooning on my old one. There must be something with your particular car that is aggravating this problem. Have you had the OBD read and check for the above?
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After a Cosworth, anything else is just ... ordinary
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Eric_R
Administrator
Cosworth Owner 1998 - 2006 & site co-founder
Posts: 1792
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #8 on: Nov 2nd, 2005, 3:27pm » |
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on Nov 1st, 2005, 10:01pm, howiedintheplace wrote:Well I have stripped a engine with a good rad & also a fair few now with blown rads. None of them show any signs of gasket failure or any signs of cooling problems apart from ballooned rads of course.
Next on my list will be to open up 2 thermostats.
1 from a ballooned car & the other from a good car to see if there is any difference.
Still the radiator saga continues . . . .
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Howied,
Before you dismantle them, could you do a test with a thermometer in a pan of hot water and check for the opening temp of both of your thermostats? Watch carefully for the opening rate as well, and how fully they open. Cheers
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After a Cosworth, anything else is just ... ordinary
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Eric_R
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Cosworth Owner 1998 - 2006 & site co-founder
Posts: 1792
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #9 on: Nov 2nd, 2005, 3:37pm » |
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on Nov 2nd, 2005, 8:43am, martin_rowe wrote:| remember the old days when all t/stats had a toggle pin, never bothered to look but is it possable to pop a 3mm hole through the stat plate, may be worth a try. |
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Yep, remember those. But they were for closed systems - the 'stat mounted in the head like the DOHC models, and merely allowed the coolant some expansion as it heated up from cold and the 'stat was closed. The 24V have a by-pass type 'stat - the coolant is constantly circulating through the heads until it reaches operating temperature - then the 'stat opens to allow a flow through to the radiator. A hole bored through this kind of thermostat would merely delay the heads getting to a proper temperature, and mpg is bad enough as it is, 
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After a Cosworth, anything else is just ... ordinary
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Snoopy
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Very old.BAD tempered and missing friends.
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #10 on: Nov 2nd, 2005, 4:19pm » |
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Is the water pump working correctly and circulating the water?, If not then the local hot spots develop and can cause the shock waves that you think it might be .
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Highlander
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Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #11 on: Nov 2nd, 2005, 5:37pm » |
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Is it always the bottom fins of the Rads that go?
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy! |
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Baz
Moderator
Senior Member
S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
Posts: 4009
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #12 on: Nov 2nd, 2005, 6:47pm » |
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Eric,
The last time I ran an OBD scan, it showed no problems at all. No codes and no eroneous readings anywhere. I will try and fit another one in this weekend if I get chance (Building a conservatory!!) As for testing the thermostats, one is probably in a landfill by now and the other is an hours work away just to remove it! I think I would scrap the car before having to take that aircon compressor off again!
Yes Highlander....it is always the bottom fins that seem to go as that appears to be the weakest part of the system.
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Paul B
Senior Member
'98 24V Ultima saloon
Posts: 2442
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #13 on: Nov 2nd, 2005, 6:51pm » |
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Can't believe this bad luck... again!
I've never had this problem with mine. Or at least I don't think so.
Can anyone tell me exactly where this ballooning takes place and just how does it look?
EDIT: Ah, the bottom fins.
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #14 on: Nov 2nd, 2005, 8:40pm » |
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Well most of the rads I have seen have gone at the top.
A couple looked good until I took off the fans & found that the rad had ballooned behind the fan at the top. 
Also had one go at the bottom but mostly the top.
Eric I will check as you said & take some pics.
Snoopy only one of the water pumps out of 9 24v's showed any problems. Grooved as if something metal had been forced past it but still worked O.K.
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Dave
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Baz
Moderator
Senior Member
S Reg. 1998 24v Cosworth S2.9 COS (Deceased)
Posts: 4009
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #16 on: Nov 8th, 2005, 9:21pm » |
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So we are no nearer to knowing why some can last forever and a day and others blow like billy-o every few thousand miles.....I can feel a new car coming on....
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #17 on: Nov 8th, 2005, 9:27pm » |
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Afraid not, the thermostat may have an effect but I am not convinced it is the cause now.
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Dave
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Danny_R
Full Member
97 Ford Crown Vic 4.6L V8 ,88 Mercury GM 5.0L V8
Posts: 381
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #18 on: Nov 9th, 2005, 3:01pm » |
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I think the radiators themselves must just be c**p!!! What else can it be? I appreciate while some people have not experienced any problems at all, I really think we could have a build quality issue here (i.e. the ballooning rads were built on Friday afternoon or something). I understand 'SaveTheNight' is developing a much stronger rad to try out. Would be interesting to see how that turns out.
On another note, my 2.0 16v blew a small hole at the bottom just underneath the auto cooler pipes. I replaced with a second hand rad from a scrap yard. That lasted 3 weeks and blew another hole in the same place. I went to Ford and purchased a new one. The new ones compared to the older ones looked really cheap and only weighed half as much. Moved to America not long after that and my Scorp has been stood for a year on a driveway in England so cant give results on how the new rad turned out.
Has anyone tried running the 24v without the stat in the housing so the water circulates from start? I imagine it would difficult to start at cold and mess all the computer stuff up?
Kind Regards
Danny_R
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mr._floppy
Junior Member
Posts: 100
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Re: Oh dear....The Ballooning Radiator is Back Aga
« Reply #19 on: Nov 9th, 2005, 8:56pm » |
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The thermostat only really comes into play in cold weather, i.e. enabling the engine block to get to operating temp. ASAP.
A simple component, and often unfairly blamed for many radiator problems, either they don't open ( fairly rare ) and bang goes your head gasket, or they don't close and the worst that happens is the engine takes longer to reach optimum temp.
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