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Topic: Wondering wheels (Read 1601 times) |
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Butterfingers
Full Member
2.3, 16V auto R Reg Ultima
Posts: 202
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Wondering wheels
« on: Jun 24th, 2006, 7:02pm » |
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I have had a problem with my wheels, they tend to wander about when the road is uneven. When the road is flat there is no problem. When the wheels wonder on uneven road, the movement is reflected in the steering wheel. So please do not refer me to the steering wander section on the website as it does not apply to my car.
I have the standard ford alloys 12 multispoke with 225 50 r16 tyres. I have had the wishbones checked radius arms and there is no problem. Steering rack is also fine. If I change the alloys there is no problem.
Does this mean I have dodgy tyres?
I have a Champro on one side and a Ventus on the other. I just want to get some opinions before I invest in new tyres.
Thanks for reading!
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Kjetil S
Senior Member
2001 BMW 520iat
Posts: 1419
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #1 on: Jun 24th, 2006, 7:21pm » |
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Quote:| I have a Champro on one side and a Ventus on the other. |
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I hope you mean Champro at the front and Ventus on the rear (or vice versa). Mixing different tyres on the same axle is generally a bad idea, and probably not legal.
Don't know if it has anything to do with your problem, but it is still a bad idea 
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http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Norway
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Butterfingers
Full Member
2.3, 16V auto R Reg Ultima
Posts: 202
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #2 on: Jun 24th, 2006, 7:24pm » |
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Could be? But yes I have 3 Ventus and 1 Champro so they are on the same axle. Perhaps I'll get rid of both!
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #3 on: Jun 24th, 2006, 7:28pm » |
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Mine does the same, especially in the lorry gullies on Motorways. I've checked the bushes etc & am convinced it is the tyres.
Maybe it's because they are cheap, or maybe because they are wide, or maybe it is uneven wear...or a mixture of all three factors.
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Butterfingers
Full Member
2.3, 16V auto R Reg Ultima
Posts: 202
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #4 on: Jun 24th, 2006, 7:35pm » |
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on Jun 24th, 2006, 7:28pm, jonnycab wrote:Mine does the same, especially in the lorry gullies on Motorways. I've checked the bushes etc & am convinced it is the tyres.
Maybe it's because they are cheap, or maybe because they are wide, or maybe it is uneven wear...or a mixture of all three factors. |
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Thank you, I'm glad I'm not the only one on this. I think it is because they are cheap typres. Like I said if the road has been resurfaced, there is no problem. But as soon as you get an uneven road, the wheels will happily follow in the tracks and do the steering for you.
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RichardMS
Full Member
More mods coming soon !
Posts: 434
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #5 on: Jun 24th, 2006, 7:53pm » |
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on Jun 24th, 2006, 7:21pm, Kjetil S wrote:
I hope you mean Champro at the front and Ventus on the rear (or vice versa). Mixing different tyres on the same axle is generally a bad idea, and probably not legal.
Don't know if it has anything to do with your problem, but it is still a bad idea |
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 What a load of rubbish, That was in the days of crossply and radials.
As for the problem it even happens on my wagon and that is not fitted with cheap tyres, I would tend to say it is more to do with the width of the tyre.
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Kjetil S
Senior Member
2001 BMW 520iat
Posts: 1419
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #6 on: Jun 24th, 2006, 8:00pm » |
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It IS illegal in Norway, and I'm pretty sure someone here said it was in the UK as well, and it is for a reason, so no, I don't think it's rubbish.
Different tyre types behave differently on slippery surfaces, which can lead to interesting situations. In addition, the tyres will probably not wear down equally on both sides (if they were of equal depth to begin with that is), wich can cause even more interesting problems.
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http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Norway
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #7 on: Jun 24th, 2006, 9:32pm » |
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Tyre width does seem to be a major cause of wander especially on uneven roads, but I think it is also a lot to do with the quality of the tyre.
I usually pay around £50 (not a fortune) a tyre & when they are new they are fine, but when they start wearing I always seem to be correcting the steering on uneven roads.
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Pam and John
Junior Member
A pair of V6's
Posts: 52
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #8 on: Jun 24th, 2006, 11:44pm » |
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Have always put it down to width of tyres and 'tram lining' effect. Running 225 x 50 x 16 's on both the Scorp and the Probe (pity the wheels arn't interchangeable  ), happens in the same places on both cars
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mr._floppy
Junior Member
Posts: 100
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #9 on: Jun 25th, 2006, 1:09am » |
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Do you mean on uneven roads ( or raised white lines ) the steering wheel tends to want to wander off the straight and has to be constantly checked ?
Sorry, but it does sound like wishbone / bush / lower balljoint Barney Rubble.
However much you lever or crowbar these components ( on the ground or in the air ) trying to find wear or movement ( even in the MOT test ), you can never replicate the huge forces that they are subject to in normal usage.
A couple of mm free play on these components can affect the steering and tyre wear but is very difficult to detect on cursory inspection.
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km449
Guest
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My Scorp has 225's, recently replaced all round, and the car still tram lines on the lorry motorway depressions just like before.
My wife's "car" runs on 195's and they arent affected by the lorry tracks at all. (Knew there must be something good about her X90!!)
Should we get an award for supposedly owning two of the uglies of the world
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #11 on: Jun 25th, 2006, 8:56am » |
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hi there
Quote:| If I change the alloys there is no problem |
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what do you mean? do you have other wheels or you swap the wheels front to back? 
re the width. yes they are a bit wide, but not that wide. my car doesn't suffer too much from tramlining. road need to be really bad for it to happen (affects wife's honda as well). i'm one for same type of tyres on the axles and make sure there is no movement in the wishbones (there's only 0.5mm play on these from new;)). i've replaced the wishbones, roll bar bushes and the drop links on mine.
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john_smiffy
Junior Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #12 on: Jun 25th, 2006, 9:35am » |
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i drive a 44 ton truck and tramlines affect it with a fullload on
i think some of the wandering on scorpio is tyre pressure
mine had 29psi all round took it up to 32psi front 34psi rear
and it seems to have cured it had it up to 120mph all ok
when i tow my caravan i go to 34fr & 46rear and it seem ok
look on side wall and it will tell you max pressure and weight per tyre try it at max and drop 2psi till it feels better
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cheers
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surfcoast4
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Posts: 27
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #13 on: Jun 25th, 2006, 10:01am » |
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nicely put John, hi all, yes you,ll find its a combination of both too low a tyre pressure and the extra width tyres, I've found, particularly in Aus. were driving is quite a pleasure generally with lots of open space, that running 32psi allround gives about the best combination of Road holding, tyre wear and BETTER fuel economy....slightly harder ride but worth the extra savings and road handling.
cheers Andy.
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #14 on: Jun 25th, 2006, 11:56am » |
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hi there
just a word of warning on taking the pressure up to the stated max of your tyre.
the max pressure is at cold. running will take the pressure up by at least 4psi.
check with your handbook for correct ford pressures and then maybe increase pressure by steps of 1psi until you find a pressure you like. i run at 31psi on the front and 29psi on the rear of my estate without any issues (and i don't hang around! ), checked from cold.
all my own opinion. 
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Butterfingers
Full Member
2.3, 16V auto R Reg Ultima
Posts: 202
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #15 on: Jun 25th, 2006, 2:03pm » |
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on Jun 25th, 2006, 8:56am, scorpio_man wrote:hi there
what do you mean? do you have other wheels or you swap the wheels front to back?
re the width. yes they are a bit wide, but not that wide. my car doesn't suffer too much from tramlining. road need to be really bad for it to happen (affects wife's honda as well). i'm one for same type of tyres on the axles and make sure there is no movement in the wishbones (there's only 0.5mm play on these from new;)). i've replaced the wishbones, roll bar bushes and the drop links on mine. |
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Hi,
Yes if I use my non ford alloys, all 4 of them, I don't have this wandering problem. The other alloys have 2 pirelli 6000's on the front and 2 cheap Ventus tyres on the back. All tyres are 225/50/16. I only seem to have the problem with the Ford 12 spoke alloys. And as I said I had the car checked out by 2 Ford dealers and its just passed the MOT.
So I think it is the cheap tyres on the Ford 12 spoke alloys. Anyway what is the correct size of tyre for the Ford 12 spoke alloy?
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #16 on: Jun 25th, 2006, 3:34pm » |
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hi there
sounds like your wheels aren't true. 
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/alloys.htm
what about the tyres. are they on the correct way round (see that before)!
re the size. yes, 225x50x16 is the size. tyres should be 'v' rated and above (think they were 'w' rated to start with).
hth
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Butterfingers
Full Member
2.3, 16V auto R Reg Ultima
Posts: 202
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #17 on: Jun 25th, 2006, 6:47pm » |
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on Jun 25th, 2006, 3:34pm, scorpio_man wrote:hi there
sounds like your wheels aren't true.
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/alloys.htm
what about the tyres. are they on the correct way round (see that before)!
re the size. yes, 225x50x16 is the size. tyres should be 'v' rated and above (think they were 'w' rated to start with).
hth |
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I'm pretty sure the FOrd ones are fine. I know the non FOrd ones have a flat spot because they are not as smooth as the Fords. I'm now thinking of getting the non Fords refurbished because they don't wander and flogging the non FOrds!
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Ultima
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #18 on: Jun 26th, 2006, 6:18pm » |
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on Jun 24th, 2006, 7:53pm, RichardMS wrote:
What a load of rubbish, That was in the days of crossply and radials.
As for the problem it even happens on my wagon and that is not fitted with cheap tyres, I would tend to say it is more to do with the width of the tyre.
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Unless you have no differential is is a VERY bad idea to have different tyres on the same axle (this applies to front or rear on a RWD car or just front on a FWD car). Ask my wife, her MX5 has 1 original panel left (but she's not crashed it since I made her change all the tyres to the same type)
If the driving (and/or steering) wheels have different levels of grip they exert different amounts of friction and can make your vehicle pull to one side. This same thing also causes problems when accelerating, braking or cornering.
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2.9 12v Scorpio Ultima Estate
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Butterfingers
Full Member
2.3, 16V auto R Reg Ultima
Posts: 202
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Re: Wondering wheels
« Reply #19 on: Jun 28th, 2006, 8:22pm » |
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Well guess what. I've aligned up with the same tyre on each axle and the problem has totally disappered. I can't believe it has been that simple for something that has caused so much grief. Yes tramlining does happen but not like it was before with the car just going off in its own direction. Many thanks for all the responses!
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