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Topic: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues? (Read 678 times) |
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PaulW
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Pimp Wagon
 
Posts: 22
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Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« on: Jul 20th, 2006, 11:48am » |
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As some of you may know, I've recently aquired a Scorpie Exec 2ltr 16v Auto for nothing, as it was originally to be scrapped...
No history with it yet (previous owner is useless) but apparently the engine in it was fitted around 6 months ago... Now for the issues...
1) It has alot of trouble holding revs at idle, aswell as holding revs at say 2k, or 3k or whatever, they dip and then go back up?? Its like it starves of fuel every so often or spark or something...
2) Exhaust s shot, the securing bolts holding the downpipe/cat on, one has broke, so the exhaust is blowing like crazy! Will be getting a new cat & bolts and such, but would this also cause any idling issues?
3) Ratty/Tappy noises... they aren't so prominent when reving the engine, but on idle, there loud
4) Oil leak from somewhere... quite a biggy! Not had chance to get the car up on some stands yet to investigate, but I'm guessing crank oil seals are a weak spot as always?
The wiring loom on the engine is properly goosed, frayed/cracked/already botched up with insulation tape, so refurbing it is out of the question, so a new loom from Ford will soon be on order. Hopefully this 'might' solve some of the idling issues and such?!
Also will be cleaning the MAF and IACV.
Little (big) video I just did to try help explain the noises and behaviour of the engine as it currently is...
http://www.pauliesworld.co.uk/vids/100_1571.MOV
Sorry its over 9meg size, but its the only format my digicam will save as...
And as for taking the car for a drive, fraid not! It currently has no TAX or MOT (MOT expired last month, tax 1 month prior...)
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #1 on: Jul 20th, 2006, 1:06pm » |
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Sounds fine to me, lol
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Geoff_W
Senior Member
98 Ulti2.5tdi Auto
Posts: 1340
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #2 on: Jul 20th, 2006, 1:07pm » |
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Paul,
First of all good luck with the project. Had a quick look and a listen to the video and here are my thoughts for what they are worth.
First, the RS2000 2.0 16 valve is a pretty robust engine and the Scorpo version was tweaked (detuned a bit) for reliability, I have one sat on the drive with 220,001 miles which has not had any major work done to it in life so far. However it sounds pretty rough on startup due to a cracked exhaust manifold (one of the jobs needed to put it back on the road). Smooths out nicely as revs build up.
Second when you remove the centre cover, noise levels go up significantly, I guess you took it off to look at coil packs and top loom, but you may have got the car without the cover. Is the noise coming from the top or bottom?
Hydraulic valve lifters sometimes can get a bit noisy if they are sticky, an oil change may help or a dose of wynns hydraulic lube de-clogger might do the trick
Fact that your noise gets better with revs makes me think it may be fairly easily sorted.
Erratic running may be an idle contol valve, air/vacuum leak, sticking cable or might have some electrical component. You mention cracked wiring, had a similar problem in the vee between the two cams where I had some cracks in the coil pack wiring, a couple of replacement packs and asociated leads took that problem away. Is your wiring problem on top of the engine or loom along left side?
It really sounds as if you could do with somebody interrogating the OBD fault codes, perhaps somebody in your neck of the woods may be able to help out.
I realise that the car is grounded but a check would probably narrow down where you need to look.
HTH
Geoff
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PaulW
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Posts: 22
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #3 on: Jul 20th, 2006, 1:47pm » |
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Thanks for the reply Geoff!
The car did come with the plug cover, I removed it to inspect the wiring & condition of the HT leads & plugs, but never did refit it afterwards. The clicking noise I can hear did get considerably louder with this cover removed, but even with it, its still pretty loud!
The noises I can't quite pinpoint the location given the condition of the exhaust, but as far as I am aware, there is no knocking from the bottom end. Although I really do need to sort out the oil leak (will investigate this later)
I'm going to get a whole manifold gasket kit when I do the exhaust & loom, so will replace all gaskets on both the inlet and outlet, it looks considerably more simple compared to my X16XE I'm rebuilding  Throttle cable doesnt seem to be sticking though, also whacked on a bit of WD40 around the area which did help slightly in preventing the car to stall (mainly squirted on the IACV) sooo thats one bit of good news so far 
I'll try get in touch with some people who might be able to help, or buy the OBD kit myself and hook it up to my laptop.
I managed to get 3 pics of a few bad points in the loom, before the batteries died (click for bigger)
there are more bad areas on the loom, aswell as poor bodged repairs & such...
Paul
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PaulW
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Pimp Wagon
Posts: 22
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #4 on: Jul 20th, 2006, 2:01pm » |
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Interesting though... I think I've just found wiring behind the front bumper, 2 plugs not connected, and upon looking through the servicing & info guides, it looks like wiring for aircon!
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/airconelectrical.htm
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Geoff_W
Senior Member
98 Ulti2.5tdi Auto
Posts: 1340
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #5 on: Jul 20th, 2006, 2:27pm » |
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Well on the loom front it looks like the classic breakdown, you can strip back and rewrap but I guess it is only a matter of time before you need to do more about it.
If you already haven't have a look at.
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/dohcloom.htm
I guess the other thing is that you mentioned a failed cat well that could be your rattle.
Have a look at the hitchikers guide to the Scorpio
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm
Geoff
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PaulW
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Pimp Wagon
Posts: 22
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #6 on: Jul 20th, 2006, 2:32pm » |
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been reading through those already! very helpful, but its still a good idea to get feedback on certain noises and conditions just incase something is a little out of the ordinary!
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Geoff_W
Senior Member
98 Ulti2.5tdi Auto
Posts: 1340
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #7 on: Jul 20th, 2006, 2:43pm » |
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Paul
I suspect you will get some more ideas from other members of the Scorporati, step by step you are in with a good chance of getting this sorted.
The important and helpful thing is to flag up what you do that works, thats a big part of the value of this site 
Geoff
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Dave
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Tourmallard 24v (ex-owner)
Posts: 1984
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #8 on: Jul 20th, 2006, 2:50pm » |
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Hi Paul,
basically agree with Geoff
If the ticking/knocking noise got worse with revs I would be more worried. Sort the oil leak then use a flushing oil. Then change the oil a couple of times in fairly quick succession. This would help quieten down the tappets if that is the cause.
The idling could well be down to an air leak as this will weaken the mixture. Of course, it could just need a good run on the motorway though I know you can't do this at the mo.
This oil leak, check it isn't the cam cover gasket as this may get onto the plugs which will then cause poor idling.
The exhaust leak may upset the oxygen sensors IIRC and that could then affect idling causing surging and stalling.
Re the loom, my 24v looked worse than that. I took the step of replacing any very bad wires and reinsulating those that were basically ok. I know it may have to be done again in the future but it has been fine *touch wood* since.
Cheers
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PaulW
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Pimp Wagon
Posts: 22
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #9 on: Jul 20th, 2006, 3:39pm » |
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The ticking/knocking noise actually goes away when the car revs, but it just cant hold the revs and dies down (as heard in the video) splutters, then goes back up to the revs!
The cam cover gasket is leaking oil on the exhaust side, its leaking down, so will also get that done too, and clean out the bores for the plugs incase there contaminated! Cant see the gasket kits costing too much (are they cork or rubber?)
other than that, im sure the rest will be easy enough! Although the car has claimed its first victim... my 30 year old vacuum cleaner decided to go fizz pop and do a hell of alot of smoking while cleaning the car out 
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Dave
Senior Member
Tourmallard 24v (ex-owner)
Posts: 1984
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #10 on: Jul 20th, 2006, 3:51pm » |
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30 years old! Is that a record?!
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Life after the Scorpio ain't easy..
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PaulW
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Pimp Wagon
Posts: 22
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #11 on: Jul 20th, 2006, 3:56pm » |
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Duno but its older than me :lol:
Got it when I moved into the new house, was off an old lady who my grandad knows well & so we got it, was apparently good as new according to a shop we took it to get it tested, used once in its life before we had it, and now smouldering on the front lawn 
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PaulW
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Pimp Wagon
Posts: 22
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #12 on: Jul 21st, 2006, 5:29pm » |
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Ok just went ford...
they couldnt identify what loom I needed for the engine, even though I gave them the reg number, VIN, etc etc... the sticker on the loom is faded so I cant identify the exact number, but the one they 'thought' was the loom, they said would cost £1800... 
Sooooo I will try 1 more dealership... if anyone who has a 2ltr 16v exec auto with no added extra's, can identify the part number of the loom, or someone who has ordered a loom from ford in the past, please could you supply the part number 
bah this is getting fun!
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Geoff_W
Senior Member
98 Ulti2.5tdi Auto
Posts: 1340
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #14 on: Jul 21st, 2006, 10:01pm » |
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Paul
The good news about the loom is that it seems that its only Scorps between two specific dates are prone, after that they changed the material used, if you can find a later car being broken with an ok loom you should be able to transfer over. That price seems high for the engine loom, it sounds like they are coming up with a ..........let me see if I take that number and treble it he will clear off and let me get on with my coffee ...special price. 
Geoff
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #15 on: Jul 21st, 2006, 11:42pm » |
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If it's the Fuel Cut-off Loom you want (that Geoff sent a link to previously).
Mine for a 2.3 was £98.04 inc VAT & post from:
http://www.fordpartsuk.com/
I was quoted about £10 more from FMD. They called it something else & had a job to find it on the screen.
Dave
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PaulW
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Pimp Wagon
Posts: 22
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #16 on: Jul 22nd, 2006, 8:18am » |
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So thats the wiring for the injectors, coil packs, sensors & such?? I'll have a look...
got 1 more FMD to try before I email the people at the website you quoted me. But trying to find a scorp in a scrappy round here, is like trying to find a needle in a haystack
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
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Re: Engine woe's... known and unknown issues?
« Reply #17 on: Jul 22nd, 2006, 10:17am » |
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Quote:| So thats the wiring for the injectors, coil packs, sensors & such?? I'll have a look |
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That's it, one of the connectors is a real swine to get at.
I think - but don't know - it may be easier to get at with the oil filter removed, so if you're thinking of changing the oil might be an idea to do at the same time.
Dave
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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