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Topic: Still pinking (Read 549 times) |
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Still pinking
« on: Jul 27th, 2006, 2:49am » |
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I know this an old post (couldn't be bothered to find the original), but I'm still pinking.
Have pulled off EGR pipe & plugged it.....pinking subsided, then returned.
Have replaced fuel rail pressure regulator....pinking subsided, then returned.
Checked for air leaks....none
Cleaned EGR of carbon....pinking subsided, then returned.
Tried injector cleaner & super unleaded Petrol....no better.
It only pinks when well warmed up, & worsed at part throttle. When I boot it there is only a slight pinking on kickdown. The engine temp reads slap bang in the middle & the fans seem to kick in fine.
The engine still runs smoothly & still returns the same mpg as it did before the pinking. In fact the car is perfect apart from the infernal 'pixie with a hammer'.
If I didn't know better then I would think it needed re-timing, but obviously that isn't possible.
Unless........
I've got a spare PCM.....I could try that...
Question is:- If I replace the PCM.....
Is it just a matter of fittng the new one & waiting for it to "learn" for fifty miles or so?.....could it be that simple?
Will the mileage reading still be the same?
Or will I be possibly looking at a very expensive re-programming job?
If someone jumped in my cab & said "take me Wits End", then I would know exactly where they wanted to go 
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #1 on: Jul 27th, 2006, 10:56am » |
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hi there
i see from some of your posts that you replaced the fuel pressure regulator with a s/h one. maybe it's faulty? 
i think this is a issue a lot of members are going to get now because of the age of the car/parts. 
i've just worked on tintin's 24v which had a faulty fpr. this was replaced with a new one and has made a big difference to the car. my car's ltft is getting a little high which i'm blaming on not use petrol very much, so not much use of the fpr valve.
hth
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #2 on: Jul 28th, 2006, 12:56am » |
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Thanks scorpio-man but I'm not convinced it is the fuel rail pressure regulator. Fpr's are usually quite reliable because of their simple design & never usually go wrong. I know I bought a second hand one, but it behaved no different from the original.
I have also replaced the EGR with a second hand one & there is no difference there either.
The reason I'm thinking it is the PCM at fault is because everytime I replace something it seems to cure the problem for a short while & then the same problem will re-surface. Nothing I do seems to cure the pinking problem.
As I mentioned before...the car runs perfectly & still has a return of 25mpg around town & over 30 mpg on a run.
The only problem is the pinking, although I did have a brief moment of lumpy tickover earier tonight but that seems to have vanished now.
P.S. just bought another FPR from madmadscorpioman on Ebay. Surely a third one can't be faulty?
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pedropedro
Full Member
Posts: 677
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #3 on: Jul 28th, 2006, 8:17pm » |
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I had a constant problem with pinking..advanced by 30 degrees and short term fuel trim was + 25% ...in the end I had someone who was experienced on scorpios and found timing chain off by half a cog .....apparently very tricky to get back in correct place ..i changed everything fpr fuel filter etc it was running lean as well which was the the way it will try and correct the advanced timing ...hope that isnt your problem,,have you had the head off ie gasket change or anything that ties in with the problem...it drove me nuts for 6 months. I had the head worked on a year ago on mine.
mine also had a bad engine resonance at 1800 rpm which was tied in with it
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #4 on: Jul 29th, 2006, 1:33am » |
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I've not had the head off or had any work done in that area since I bought it in March. The previous owner did have a new engine & gearbox put in 40,000 miles ago, but it's only been pinking for the last 2000 miles or so.
How come the timing chain was off half a cog. Was it put on wrong or did it somehow slip?
The car is going in the garage on tuesday to have a new lower timing chain cover put on, as the seal has gone & it is leaking oil. But I doubt this is anything to do with it.
Also, i've not noticed any engine resonance or other unusual noises, although a couple of months back I did have a kind of harmonic noise that I couldn't pinpoint, but disappeared as quickly as it came.
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sector-9
Senior Member
No scorpio anymore
Posts: 1069
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #5 on: Jul 29th, 2006, 9:26pm » |
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Hmmm, sounds like all the little things you've done have made a difference but the ECU detects it and compensates to 'correct' the problem which is why it keeps pinking again after a short time.
Question is, is it too far advanced timing or too weak mixture? Certainly sounds like a sensor/electrical fault rather than mechanical. Have you checked the CTS? I think you'll be needing somebody with computer and software so you can read sensor values and see if any of them are out of spec...
Darren
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #6 on: Jul 29th, 2006, 11:44pm » |
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Cheers Darren...It is looking like I'll have to get get a diagnostic check.
Anyone in south Essex that can do this? (not Ford).
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #7 on: Aug 2nd, 2006, 12:22am » |
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The last couple of days have been a bit cooler than recent (thankfully), but the strangest thing is that the car has not pinked as much, & tonight (19c on dash), there was hardly any pinking at all.
I cannot for the life of me think why the outside air temperature would affect the engine (pinking), but it seems to 
Can anyone shead any light on this phenomenon?
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Octavian_P
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1126
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #8 on: Aug 2nd, 2006, 6:45am » |
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Maybe it is the air intake temperature sensor.....an obd scan will show the value, if it's to high (the temperature) then maybe the advance gets wrong and makes the engine pink....
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2.0 16V Ultima|2.3 16V Ghia|2.9 24V Cosworth Ghia
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #9 on: Aug 2nd, 2006, 9:41am » |
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I was just thinking that....cheers Octavian 
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Octavian_P
Senior Member
Posts: 1126
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #10 on: Aug 2nd, 2006, 11:07am » |
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You cand check it eaven without an obd, you need a termometer, a multimeter and the info found on the main site. There is a table with the sensor value at different temperatures......
Cheers
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2.0 16V Ultima|2.3 16V Ghia|2.9 24V Cosworth Ghia
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #11 on: Aug 3rd, 2006, 1:39pm » |
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Slightly confused now, probably my brain's been dis-connected.
I phoned Ford to enquire about a price for a new IAT, & this is what they asked me,
"The IAT....is it the sensor which screws into the inlet manifold (cooling fan switch) next to the ECT, or the small sensor that is pushed into the pipework just before the throttle?"
I've looked on this site & both are indeed described as the Intake Air Temperature sensor.
I am also a little confused as, if it is the one that screws into the manifold, then as the sensor is emmersed in coolant, how can it measure the air intake temp?
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Simmo
Administrator
I'm an OAP !
Posts: 5508
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #12 on: Aug 3rd, 2006, 2:14pm » |
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JC, I'm guessing too and can't find a diagram of the location on the site. Surely it must be the sensor which is fitted into the air inlet trunking.On my 16v 2ltr it is fitted to the underside of the outer of the two inlet pipes and the wiring is fed into the loom as it enters the long 'box' above the injectors. Certainly lookin at it and the diagram on the site it appears to be identical. HTH. Mike
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Now I'm an OAP
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Octavian_P
Senior Member
Posts: 1126
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #13 on: Aug 3rd, 2006, 3:23pm » |
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It's a bit triky, in fact there are 3 sensors, the ECT which sends info about water temperature to the EEC-V and command the cooling fans, there is another sensor next to it responsible of the temperature gauge indication. The third one it's the IAT and it's mounted after the air resonator (big black box in the middle, right after the air filter), just before the throttle body.
Although it's for the 2.0 which has a slight modified intake this should give a better ideea about
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/16vcomponents.htm
Cheers
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2.0 16V Ultima|2.3 16V Ghia|2.9 24V Cosworth Ghia
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #14 on: Aug 3rd, 2006, 9:40pm » |
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The IAT is a push fit in the trunking just before the throttle body & looks like this:
Ebay 4618923954
Dave
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Still pinking
« Reply #15 on: Aug 4th, 2006, 1:04am » |
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Cheers guys.....It's all coming back to me now.
I changed the temp gauge sender a few months back & a bit later the one next to it (ECT) popped out (mounting hex nut as well) along with all my coolant. Managed to fix it back in with Quick Steel.
So that eliminates those two.
The only one left is the little one in the air trunking....ahh....so THAT is the IAT.
What confused me is the fact that the diagram on this site looks nothing like mine........
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/iatdata.htm
As for my local FMD.....hhmmmm
P.S. I'll fit a new IAT to see if it stops the pinking before I get the diagnostic done.
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