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Topic: Pinking again....very annoying (Read 3701 times) |
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Pinking again....very annoying
« on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 1:16am » |
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Anyone who has read my past problems with pinking will know what I'm talking about.
But there are a few new members on here that may be able to offer some suggestions.....I hope.
My 2.3 only pinks occasionally...but when it does, it annoys me & makes my new spark plugs go black (so a bit rich). The worst is No 4 plug which tends to build up hard carbon deposits 
I've replaced the fuel rail pressure regulator & replaced it again as the first one I bought from FMD was faulty 
New thermostat, new ECT, new IAT, new (second hand) EGR, cleaned MAF, no leaks on inlet manifold, all pipes to & from are split free, cleaned IACV & made sure it was seated back properly, new air filter, new (second hand coil packs), new plug leads, wiring loom not damaged, cooling system fine (did that a while back).
The car runs fine 90% of the time.....but all of a sudden it will start pinking.
It only does it when it's hot & under load on short journeys (local taxi runs). On a longer journey it may pink to start with but pinking will dissapear after a couple of miles.
I thought of it being heat related, but dash temp dial is always slap bang in the middle.
Can't work it out?
P.S....please don't suggest taking it to FMD for a diagnostic test,.... it is said......"the organ grinder allways sits back & lets the monkeys do the work" 
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Octavian_P
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1126
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #1 on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 1:39am » |
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You could try to give the injectors a cleanup...maybe there is some "dirt" on the injection ramp and clogs the injectors when the gas flow increases.....
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2.0 16V Ultima|2.3 16V Ghia|2.9 24V Cosworth Ghia
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #2 on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 1:41am » |
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Stuck injector cleaner in it a couple of times now.....no difference 
Tried BP Ultima as well.....still pinks
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Octavian_P
Senior Member
Posts: 1126
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #3 on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 3:54am » |
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I personaly don't belive in injector cleaner, i prefer takeing them off, old schoolt type, using a low current 12 power source to open them and then back-flush them with isopropilic alcohol.
You say that the coil packs are new (old)....maybe they could be at fault ? like the fpr story ... try to borow from someone a good working ones and test them....
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2.0 16V Ultima|2.3 16V Ghia|2.9 24V Cosworth Ghia
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Atlantic_blue
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 142
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #4 on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 7:08am » |
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Perhaps a good old fashioned decoke.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #5 on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 10:36am » |
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If it were the coils packs then I would have expected a bit of mis-fire as a clue. Besides they were only replaced to see if there was any difference....there was no difference, so that means the old ones were fine. 
Good old fashioned de-coke...what, you mean take off head, strip it down and use a wire brush drill bit to get the carbon off the valve seats?......that is out of the question, it's too time consuming & I need my car everyday to earn a living.
Anyway, if it were a heavy build up of carbon, then surely it would pink all the time
Cleaning the injectors manually sounds like a good idea. I've never taken them off before....is it an easy job?
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #6 on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 5:03pm » |
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hi there
have you ever had it scanned? might give more of a clue if there was an error code(s) or what the LTFT were at.
hth
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Octavian_P
Senior Member
Posts: 1126
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #7 on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 6:43pm » |
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It took me about 30 minutes to get them off, this is all you need to know
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/fuel/Fuel16VInj.pdf
well i overeacted a bit and to have more space i have disconnected the loom from the camshaft sensor / coil packs, intake tubing....a a few bits that where staing in my way.
Take great care when takeing them out of the rail, the injectors are kind of stuked with some o-rings....and their casings are verry easy to break so don't use a screw driver to pry them out.....
To give them a good clean, take a 9-12V power supply that has low corrent rating...something like maximum 500 mA ....and make some kind of contraption to flush the injector from it's nose (backwords). When current it's applied the injector is opened and flushing it backwords will get the dirt out of it
Ps: you will see that the injectors have their own fuel filter...so the above step with current it isn't really necesarly. 
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2.0 16V Ultima|2.3 16V Ghia|2.9 24V Cosworth Ghia
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hellblue
Full Member
Ill have silver,it dries just as fast !
Posts: 210
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #8 on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 8:54pm » |
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Have you tried a fuel additive to boost the octain rating?, do you get your fuel from the same place?,does it happen with fuel from one place?,are the spark plugs 100% the right ones?, you could try one grade colder plugs?.
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Gary
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #9 on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 10:37pm » |
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Hellblue...Yes, I've tried different petrol station & additives. The plugs are Motorcraft & are the right ones for the car (AGPS 22P1), & are brand new.
scorpio_man....I haven't had it scanned by FMD but I do have a little autel scanner & that shows no codes. ....It is looking like I'm going to have to bite the bullet & book it into FMD for a full diagnostic check.
Thanks Octavian for the advice. I'm not convinced it's an injector problem, but I will still give them a clean anyway just to make sure.
I'm going away to Spain on Thursday for a week, so everything will have to wait 'till I get back....
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #10 on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 10:51pm » |
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hi there
is there no one near you with an OBD-2 lead? i just want to see what the Long Term Fuel Trim is sitting at. unless it went to +/- 25% then there wouldn't be an error code.
getting someone to scan it is the way to go. can you get to a meeting?
hth
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Eric_R
Administrator
Cosworth Owner 1998 - 2006 & site co-founder
Posts: 1792
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #11 on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 11:28pm » |
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Jonny,
If I could just pop in a word here ...
Although pinking can be caused by carbon build-up, from experience this causes pinking worsening on long journeys as the carbon starts to glow with heat, so your symptoms don't fit with that.
Looking for error codes won't necessarily help, because OBD will only register a code if the FUEL system registers parameters well outside normal - ie when both the STFT and the LTFT are maxed out (exceeding about 25%) and other Monitors happen to be running at the time, like the EGR.
You were right to suspect the fuel rail pressure regulator (FRPR) because that is the most likely cause - but that has been replaced twice and you're confident that it is ok.
Taking the car to an FMD might not be useful; their diagnostic machine is a pain to set up on the move and it takes skill to scan the relevant sensors - even if they know what to look for on a Scorpio.
MAy I suggest another alternative - meet with another owner with an OBD lead and run a scan, particularly covering the time the engine is pinking. There can be several causes:
1. MAF reading wrongly, (Intermittent fault in MAF or the wiring loom to it)
2. INJector sticking open (over-rich mixture detected by both HO2S sensors and the FUEL is leaned off too much - although normally idle will be poor and you don't mention this.
3. EGR sticking open, admitting air and leaning off mixture (although a DTC might be expected the EGR Monitor only runs once during an OBD trip so might have missed it)
4. Loss of sensor input from the FCO loom, although you said you had replaced this wiring and the Comp Component Monitor should have detected this and posted a DTC.
There is an issue with the plastic inlet manifold, too. One some 2.3 engines this has been found to crack, letting in unmetered air and leaning out the mixture too much, so check the inlet manifold very carefully for any sign of cracking or staining, including underneath. When cold the crack might be closed and the fuel is rich for cold-running - but as the engine heats up the crack may be opening and would be more prone to affect the leaner fuelling for hot running.
If you're sure it's not the inlet manifold, if you could get a scan done as it's pinking, selecting the following,
SPEED
RPM
MAF
LOAD
first for a minute or so, then save the scan, then another,
RPM
HO2S1
HO2S2
LTFT1
LTFT2
for two minutes or so, then save it and then
IAT
ECT
and in the Enhanced page select
LOOP
EGVR
DPFEGR
for a further few minutes. With those scans we should have a much better idea of what is going on.
HTH
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After a Cosworth, anything else is just ... ordinary
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #12 on: Oct 23rd, 2006, 1:25am » |
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Eric...I didn't say I had replaced the FCO loom, I said it wasn't damaged
I have had problems with the inlet manifold in the past, around the ECT hole (leaking), but I managed to fix this properly with a hot knife & quick steel....so it doesn't leak anymore. This part of the manifold is sectioned off from the main part, so I don't think I have a problem there.
I've not had a good look at the underneath of the inlet manifold....it's a bit difficult due to lack of light & obstructions (looking from underneath) such as starter motor & oil filter etc.
The idle is a little jumpy sometimes when hot (when I say a little, I mean a LITTLE, like the odd hiccup) but this seems to pass.
The MAF looks (visually) okay....looking at it with a magnifying glass the tiny little strands of wire have no breaks & are are nice & clean.....sprayed it with carb cleaner before inspecting
I am starting to wonder....the car has 148 K miles now. When I bought it in February there was 131K on it. The engine was replaced (by previous owner) at 98K. The engine looks new, but most of the components look original.
I am wondering whether new gaskets were used when fitting the old inlet manifold back on....or maybe they just used the old (stuck on) ones to save money
Not heard of anyone in the Essex area with the proper OBD stuff....you all seem to be up North
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #13 on: Oct 23rd, 2006, 8:41am » |
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A leaking inlet can cause your problem but you do really need to get the car scanned now to move forward.
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Dave
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #14 on: Oct 23rd, 2006, 11:09am » |
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The local car spares has put me on to someone who they think might be able to do a thorough scan.....so fingers crossed
Will get it done as soon as I get back from my short holiday
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #15 on: Oct 25th, 2006, 2:59am » |
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A quick update.....well long one really....
Monday afternoon, had the bonnet up again (no wonder the neighbours never ask me to take them to the airport  ) having a good look around, when I remembered reading somewhere (some Scorp review, can't remember where) that the pcm can be prone to problems.....(I had thought of this before, but thought..."nahhh")
I've never fiddled with the pcm before, & being of a curious nature, I decided it would be a good idea to take it out, open it up & see if there was any obvious visual problems...like a blown resistor/capacitor etc (remember reading Darrens (sector9) pcm repair page).
So off came the battery & out came the cordless & I proceeded to drill out the rivets. Once the casing was released I pulled out the pcm.....
Now, having read the page on here about removal, it mentions that the 10mm nut has to be undone to remove the multiplug. Went to fit the 10mm socket over the nut when I felt it was loose...so loose in fact, that it only took one turn to release it from the thread, & pull the multiplug off.
I checked the pcm pins & none were bent so fitted the multiplug back on & did the 10mm bolt up. Whilst doing the bolt up, it was then that I realised that the multiplug was going a lot further in than it was originally seated.
So I'm thinking....maybe there was a continuity problem....a pin or two intermitantly disconnecting....& that's what is causing the intermitant pinking ? .....
Well...went to work Monday night & didn't hear any pinking, but put that down to the fact that it was lashing down with rain all night , so had the windows done up.
But tonight was dry, so I had the window down when I could & there was no pinking.....only a very slight knock/quick crack when flooring it at say...30 mph before it kicks down
Could the loose pcm multiplug have been the reason for the pinking......or was it just that I diconnected the battery (again), & once the pcm re-learns all it's parameters it will start rattling again. ....fingers crossed eh
Anyway, just got Wednesday night to get out of the way, & hopefully no pinking, & I'm off to sunny Spain Thursday morning.....so I can forget about my Scorp woes & rent a little Seat Ibiza for a week ....I'll be listening for pinking though
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #16 on: Oct 25th, 2006, 11:03am » |
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Certainly could do it.
It's the bolt that pulls the connector on to the ECU as you say.
So it could be some conectors where not even touching.
Lucky you checked as it could have threw up all kinds of false codes on a scan.
Fingers crossed 
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Dave
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #17 on: Oct 25th, 2006, 11:15am » |
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Didn't have any fault codes though (using the Autel Geniscan)..........the only one I ever had was P0171 which related to the (new) dodgy fuel regulator.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #18 on: Nov 19th, 2006, 12:49am » |
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Okay.........update.
It was nothing to do with the loose pcm bolt.....pinking came back after pcm had re-learned it's values after re-connecting battery.
I'm thinking that it may well be a local petrol retailer problem.
If I fill up at my local Total garage, then it pinks.
If I fill up at my local BP garage, then it pinks intermittently.
If I fill up with BP Ultimate, then I get no pinking at all.
So I conclude that this car likes 97 octane.....but why?....The car doesn't seem any faster & it deffinately costs more in fuel.
Or is there an adjustment switch on the Scorp (like there was on the early Mondeo) that allows you to run on cheap European (92 octane) fuel that I've overlooked?
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harry.m1byt
Full Member
What's YaBB?
Posts: 792
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Re: Pinking again....very annoying
« Reply #19 on: Nov 19th, 2006, 8:49am » |
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on Nov 19th, 2006, 12:49am, jonnycab wrote:
Or is there an adjustment switch on the Scorp (like there was on the early Mondeo) that allows you to run on cheap European (92 octane) fuel that I've overlooked?
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I would look for the octane adjuster plug and check its setting. The Granada had one too, but from memory it only adjusted it from the basic 93 octane down to an even lower octane fuel.
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August '95 2.9 12v auto Ultima -
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