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Topic: engine rattle (Read 3123 times) |
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tintin
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engine rattle
« on: Nov 11th, 2006, 11:23am » |
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ok, car went into the garage today to get the engine sorted. asked them to sort out the vacuum pipes (thanks TT) and replace the n/s cat sensor, and see if it helps (car is currently running closed loop)
the mechanic was pretty negative, he is convinced the big ends are away. the rattle only happens when cold and at idle, as soon as the engine is revved at cold, rattle disappears, and also no rattle when warmed up. just started doing this recently and overnight...car also sometimes loses power. im struggling to separate cause and symptoms !!
would a poor running engine cause a big end rattle? i said if it was big end, it wouldnt be repaired, so all we can do is fix the rest.... or is this false economy?
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'95 Cosworth Ultima
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Highlander
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #1 on: Nov 11th, 2006, 11:34am » |
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It'll be interesting to see what a scan shows after the sensor is replaced.
Could it possibly be the cat breaking up causing the problems?
The sensor is going on the same side where the noise is isnt it?
P.S. got some rubber for those 12 spokes yet? 
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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tintin
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #2 on: Nov 11th, 2006, 11:45am » |
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rubber is on hold until car starts behaving 
yep, started with overfueling on that side, changed FPR, not overfuelling now but sensor has always been a bit iffy, my thought is either car running rough or blocked cat (or combo of both) is causing noise in the block, but garage is [/b][/i]convinced[b][i] its big ends.....
would big end noise go away when engine warms? has anyone ever had a big end go on a 100k engine? seems a bit early....
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howiedintheplace
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #3 on: Nov 11th, 2006, 11:48am » |
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I think you posted about this before.
Anyway if a mechanic thinks it's bigends I would go with that as it's a noise that you learn.
But usally big ends are barly audible when cold getting louder as the engine heats up, also they are noticable when you rev the engine & on over-run.
If you hold the engine around 2000 rpm they should be real loud.
They will not effect the engine performance.
Big ends are fairly cheap to replace.
Your problem sounds more like timming chains (I think yours is a 24V).
Noise when cold & at tickover fits the profile can also cause slight power loses but that's probably to do with the vacuum pipes & cat sensor as you call it.
Basically when cold oil is thicker & tickover produces low oil pressure which means your tensioner will not be pushing against the chain guide with the force it should.
This then lets the chain move about probably taking chunks out of your plastic guides.
The above can also be caused by worn big ends as the wear would allow the oil pressure to drop on tick over.
A real can of worms this 
I would try a engine flush & the right oil & filter & see if it makes a difference.
If not then something has worn out.
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Dave
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tintin
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #4 on: Nov 11th, 2006, 1:22pm » |
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yep, sorry to repeat, just need reassuring maybe 
hmm, interested about the oil, it did start shortly after i asked them to do an oil change.... wonder if they fitted the wrong filter, or used rubbish oil....
rattle is at 900-1500rpm, as soon as it goes over that, it disappears, even when cold
how much is not much for big ends?
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mazzy_j
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #5 on: Nov 11th, 2006, 4:47pm » |
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As Highlander says, i'd check your cats first as my 24v does to the word what your describing and i know the o/s cat is broken on mine 
if not that then next on the list would be the chains...
Matt
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #6 on: Nov 11th, 2006, 8:05pm » |
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i know nothing about cats, so im with howie. if the garage did the oil change check the level, chains rattle more when cold and oil not up to pressure. some years ago an exhaust place was doing an offer, 10 quid for oil and filter change, i thought ideal, cheaper than i can do it and convenient. afterwards the engine was rattly, i checked the oil level, they'd filled it to the minimum.
if you change the oil, check the old oil for swarf, if the big ends are going there is often a tell tale sign with lots of swarf in the oil.
i doubt the parts for doing the big ends are expensive, but its time consuming...
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howiedintheplace
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #7 on: Nov 12th, 2006, 10:37am » |
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The noise the CATS make when they break-up is very different to the big end noise, so I would assume the mechanic would know which is which.
The timing chain noise is again a bit different also but is closer to a big end kind of noise so could be mistaken for that.
Here is a big end noise, does it sound like this?
http://media.putfile.com/Sick-12V
The clicking is the injectors, the banging is the bigend, espically clear when it revs up at the end.
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Dave
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tintin
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #8 on: Nov 12th, 2006, 11:41am » |
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wow, no its not that bad !!!
but the low end clunking is similar, except not there all the time, rattles for about 10 clunks (3 secs) on the tail end of the revs dropping usually, then goes away again. occasional clunking on idle.
i will try to record a sound file of it when i get it back....
thanks for the ideas guys
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scorpio_man
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #9 on: Nov 12th, 2006, 12:33pm » |
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i sam
that's not what i heard at the meeting!
hopefully you'll get good news from the garage. 
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tintin
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #10 on: Nov 12th, 2006, 12:59pm » |
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yep, car was warm at the meet, so wasnt doing it, only happens when the car has been sat a day or so, but its loud when it does....
fingers and toes crossed !!
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tintin
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #11 on: Nov 20th, 2006, 11:39am » |
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grrr, garage have come back saying the n/s bank is way down on pressure, about 80-100, whereas the o/s bank is 140. so their conclusion is broken engine, just scrap it mate.....they havent done the sensor or hoses, as they reckon thats a waste
any ideas?
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Highlander
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #12 on: Nov 20th, 2006, 12:43pm » |
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Cylinder pressures?
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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tintin
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #13 on: Nov 20th, 2006, 2:50pm » |
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i presume so.....thats all i got from them, i think it is written off in their heads and they just want it off their plot now....
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Dave2302
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #14 on: Nov 20th, 2006, 4:03pm » |
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on Nov 20th, 2006, 11:39am, tintin wrote:
Try getting an opinion from someone knowledgeable it sounds to me like your garage don't know / cant be bothered.
Regards
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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tintin
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #15 on: Nov 20th, 2006, 4:17pm » |
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Try getting an opinion from someone knowledgeable
 and therein lies the rub.....
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Highlander
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #16 on: Nov 20th, 2006, 5:01pm » |
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Defintely sounds like they're trying to get out of doing the job and they don't know whats wrong.
A garage would take on any job as long as they were getting paid for it, whether its worth the owner doing it or not.
Tell them you want it fixing
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Highlander
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #17 on: Nov 20th, 2006, 5:07pm » |
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In fact if it is poor cylinder pressure like they say then its either a head gasket a cracked head or piston rings,valves? not really above your average garage I shouldn't think
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Dave2302
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #18 on: Nov 20th, 2006, 5:18pm » |
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Tin Tin,
What area are you? Is there no one on here who could come and take a listen ? I would happily do so if your Kent area.
Regards
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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Highlander
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Re: engine rattle
« Reply #19 on: Nov 20th, 2006, 5:34pm » |
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A few of us had a listen at the Borders meet, admittedly it was warmed up but we didnt hear much, not enough to scrap it anyway! It seems to run fine when its warm.
I'd like to see all the pipes and sensor sorted first then have a listen to it.. sounds like the garage is a bit out their depth
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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