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Topic: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! (Read 2657 times) |
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slimspider
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Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« on: Nov 14th, 2006, 2:38pm » |
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I dont understand? I picked up my 2.3 ultima from the mechanic who had fitted a brand new inlet manifold. He told me that it was not worth continuing with the car it had overheated and craked the inlet manifold and now although a new one was fitted, the cylinder gasket head not able to keep water in..not a leak....but something about air gushing up. He said to keep the heater on and I would get home 2 miles... so I was prepared to scrap the car... ebay or give to breakers etc. BUT it is driving beautifully. I cannot face that this is the end... can't the head gasket cylinder be mended? If it is a big job it maybe that my mechanic as he is busy could not do it. How much abot would it be,
Does anyone know of a good place near St. Albans that would / could mend it or am i missing something..... e.g maybe if I drove a bit more than 2 miles the head cylinder gasket problem would show up... there was no water leak that I could see....just a lovely smooth car with leather seats etc.... or am i being unrealistic? 
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Dave2302
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2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #1 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 3:06pm » |
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He didn't offer to buy the car off you did he
Also, I wonder if it had an airlock
Try going for a drive locally and taking water with you in case but kind of keep driving "round the block" so you dont go too far from home but clock up a few miles.
If the level stays constant and it doesn't overheat then it simply had an airlock.
Good Luck 
Regards
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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slimspider
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Posts: 32
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #2 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 5:14pm » |
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Cheers - I will try... I see it is a problem of overheating?
what would I need the water for? to put in where ....or for me to drink
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cossieguy
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1996 Cosworth Ultima saloon
Posts: 550
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #4 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 5:48pm » |
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Does your heater kick out hot air? Just want to make sure that your coolant system is working correctly.
Guy.
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #5 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 6:49pm » |
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If the compression had gone or something I could understand the mechanic saying it wasn't worth it. But a head gasket/cracked head isn't the end of the world. Anyway, surely the car is worth more to you than market value which makes it worth it?
How was the water level when you got it home?
Keep it on quiet roads near to home as Dave says, clock up a few miles and keep an eye on the temp guage and coolant level; if the temp starts getting a bit high, pull over and check the level.
Good luck
Regards, Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #6 on: Nov 15th, 2006, 12:25am » |
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Well from what I can make out from your post it appear the inlet cracked & the engine over heated.
Then after a new inlet was fitted the guy said the water was being presured.
That is likely to be the head gasket if the engine has over heated but could be also a airlock.
As said run it locally for a few days carefully & see what happens.
A head gasket is not the end of the world.
A garage would probably want £500 to do it thou.
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Dave
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #7 on: Nov 15th, 2006, 7:14am » |
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If you have a friend who is good with cars, then taking the head off is not such a big job, and the head can then be skimmed. This would HAVE to be carried out by an engine reconditioning shop, it's NOTa job that can be done without the proper equipment. A skim would cost you about £50 plus whatever you paid your friend!!  They usually like B E E R !!
Look in Yellow Pages under "Engine Reconditioners".
Skimming removes a fine amount of metal from the face of the cylinder head, so that it is perfectly flat and level again. When Cylinder Heads get overheated, they 'warp' and this is why air or water. or usually both, escape from the joint between the engine block, and the head, and you lose the compression.
WHATEVER you do, don't cane the car in its present state. You will make matters worse. You've got some good advice here from other members, so see how you go with the air lock possibility first.
Hope it's just an airlock!!
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slimspider
Newbie
Posts: 32
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #8 on: Nov 15th, 2006, 7:47am » |
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Thank you for this advice... I will run locally as suggested and see if there is a problem.. What should I look out for in overheating? is it just the temp gauge?
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slimspider
Newbie
Posts: 32
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #9 on: Nov 15th, 2006, 7:50am » |
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Sorry just re read the advice and it is clear - temp gauge and coolant level.. is that the white plastic box on the left of the engine?
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Simmo
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I'm an OAP !
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #10 on: Nov 15th, 2006, 7:51am » |
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Yes.
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Now I'm an OAP
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Highlander
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Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #11 on: Nov 15th, 2006, 10:11am » |
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Just a note of caution.. I've seen a 2.3 lose water and cook the engine and the temp gauge never moved. Have you got the early model with the coolant level warning light and does it work? Don't trust the instruments on a Scorpio check it regularly and be careful you don't get burned when checking the coolant level, it will be pressurised and release hot steam and water especially if the gasket has gone.
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy! |
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #12 on: Nov 15th, 2006, 3:45pm » |
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Good point, keep a close eye on the water level every mile or so, don't push the car hard, nice gentle drive on quiet roads near home. If you keep it all under check you'll be ok
Like the chaps say, just don't cane it, a new head gasket isn't the end of the world if you do need one
My Cousin blew the head on his 2.0 Mondeo, new skimmed head, gaskets etc etc, all done at mates rates for £550.
I'd have my suspicions over the mechanic, wouldn't be the first to offer to take the car off of your hands and scrap it, some people in the trade never have to buy a car
Regards, Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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slimspider
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Posts: 32
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #13 on: Nov 15th, 2006, 11:48pm » |
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Thanks for all the advice - it is really much appreciated!!
I am away until Fri so will run it over the weekend.
The mechanic is a really honest bloke so it may be that he is v busy but I hope it is an airlock... My wife has again started looking at other cars.. to match the 2.3 scorpio spec another car is £10000 at least!
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #14 on: Nov 16th, 2006, 6:39am » |
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Quote:| The mechanic is a really honest bloke |
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If you say so!!! I've met ONE genuine mechanic in 42 years of driving. Beware!! Most garages have a 'sympathetic smiler' who will then proceed to ream you for every last penny that they can get out of you.
If you've found a good garage, then I'm pleased, but as yet, and I mean this very kindly, you don't seem to know a lot about the car, and they WILL take advantage of that.....so be careful.
Take the kids along, in some car boot rags, looking absolutely starving, and the wife with nine kids in a pram (use dolls), crying her eyes out. Watch their hearts melt!! I don't think so!!
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martin_rowe
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #15 on: Nov 16th, 2006, 8:57am » |
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spannerdemon,
I take exception to your remarks about garages / mechanics, please dont 'tar us with the same brush', I dont dispute there are a lot of incompetant / untrustworthy operations about, but there are many reputable people / companies out there also. The whole garage trade is going through big changes at the moment with the implementation of BSI registration & technician registration, those of us who will then be able to display the 'Kite Mark' will give a guarantee of good, reputable service.
Some on the site seem to take exception at good independants charging around £50.00 per hour, i think you will find that that is quite competitive, many main agents charge approx 11/2 times that, in fact I know of an Audi dealership down south charging £200.00 per hour. perhaps some people should think about what the company they work for charges their time out at, or call a man out to your washing machine, $50.00 for the first hour ect. please remember we are not all 'rouge traders'.
rant over
Martin.
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Rally Drivers Do It Sideways
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #16 on: Nov 16th, 2006, 10:06am » |
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I spent years in the motor trade rebuilding auto boxes, during which time I never once needed to lie or sell a customer something they did not need. 
Part of the problem is that a reputable garage will usually have to charge more to do the job properly, and cover an element of staff training etc in its budget.
A cowboy outfit will however fit second hand parts, not renew all the bearings seals etc within a transmission, and usually employ a load of very young in experienced "mechanics" on a low wage. 
Caveat Emptor.......... Go for a cheap job you get what you pay for. I know of places charging under £700 for a "Recon" Scorp Auto box, and I'm telling you all now you cannot do a proper rebuild and remain in business for less than £850.
Regards
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #17 on: Nov 16th, 2006, 11:28am » |
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Firstly it's so important that you keep checking the water & oil when you run the engine local to test it.
It also needs to be driven hard for a period of time also as that sometimes clears the air lock.
Anyway there is no point driving it with care & it seems O.K then go for a 200 mile trip & it over heats because your driving normally again is there
I think what the garage is trying to tell you is that the car is not worth the work.
So in my book that makes him a honest guy.
You have already replaced the inlet with new so you have probably spent £500 already.
The gasket or cracked head at least another £500.
In short your spending more than the car is probably worth.
A garage don't take into account how much you like the car but just looks at the cost of it all.
A dodgy garage in my view is one that says you need this & this & ..................
Before you know it you have spent twice the value of the car & it still has problems 
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Dave
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #18 on: Nov 16th, 2006, 12:15pm » |
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No you can't. Some honest, some are rogues, as with plumbers, chippies, brickies, sparks...
You get good and bad in all walks of life, we had a mechanic in London who was great, went down the road to another (bigger) garage once, got stung for £500 and car came back running like a tractor - never again. It happens to everyone
I've worked with a few 'qualified tradesmen' and I've seen some of the (bodge) work of kitchen fitters and the like. But again, they're not all like it just as some of the people I've worked for are more trustworthy than others. I'm still training but there are a lot of things I see which I wouldn't have if I was doing the work.
Regards, Bruce .
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?!
« Reply #19 on: Nov 17th, 2006, 9:56pm » |
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Martin I take your point, but I doubt if many of us Scorpio owners can afford a rate of £50.00 plus an hour for garage work. Our cars are older models, which (generally) would mean that we don't have the money to buy newer models.
The Scorpio is a great car. That's why we all drive them, but there is no way that I would hand my car over to any garage for a service. I just don't trust garages any more, and I know that many others feel the same way.
I personally think that you get what you pay for, and in the case of the bigger dealerships, what you are really paying for is Sales Executives, Service Managers, Service Coordinators, Big glass showrooms, and all the glitz and soft music that goes with it all. That's why their prices are sky high, it's nothing to do with the quality of workmanship. In fact it's quite likely that a trainee will look after your car (but at full workshop rates of course)!!
Several years ago, I had a Volvo serviced by a Main Volvo Dealer near York. The service cost me almost £500.00. The mechanic who worked on the car inadvertantly left a Torque wrench under the bonnet, which did over £3,500.00 of damage eight miles down the road at 70mph, when it dropped into the water pump, jammed, smashing everything in sight, including the engine block, on my car. Cost them not only a new engine, but radiator, bonnet, turbo, etc etc.
Their immediate reaction when the car was recovered to them by the RAC less than an hour after leaving their workshops was to immediately deny all knowledge of it !!! Nuffink to do wiv us Guv!! 
It was just a shame that the nice new Snap-On wrench sticking out of the block had their mechanics name and the dealers name engraved on the handle!!
I speak from personal experience built up over many years, and I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I have to say in all honesty that I wouldn't trust many garages to do a proper job on any car of mine. I've been lied to, misled, and conned too many times by garages to have any faith in them anymore.
The main problem is that they book in say 20 cars a day. They have three mechanics. There is NO WAY they can carry out efficient work with so few mechanics in an 8 hour working day. It simply doesn't work out. A FULL service for example, will take even a good qualified mechanic at least 5/6 hours solid work.
I now do ALL my own servicing. I then KNOW that the work has been carried out. I source the parts at Trade prices, and I allow sufficient time to do the job properly. No short cuts, no shoddy workmanship, and sadly (as some garages do), I don't mess with other parts to make a bit more work for another time!! We all know it happens. That's why garages have such a bad press.
At the end of the day, it comes down to trust. And I don't trust garages. Been there, been bitten several times, and will not be going back for more.
As usual, the bad apples ruin the whole barrel.
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