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Topic: Rear wheel negative camber (Read 1982 times) |
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Rear wheel negative camber
« on: Jan 13th, 2007, 11:40pm » |
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Rear wheel bearings are okay & shocks are fine, but both rear wheels camber out at the bottom 
The top arms of the rear suspension look off centre in the bushes (pulling more to the outside)...so I reckon a couple of new top bushes might help 
I've had a quick look on the site but haven't found the procedure for replacing these bushes.
Any help please ?
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Highlander
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #1 on: Jan 14th, 2007, 12:33am » |
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I'd drop the whole back subframe, its only a few big bolts. 
then you have good access to the suspension arm bushes.
You might be able to get them in by just dropping the arms but i've not tried that
I actually think there are polybush kits for the Granada/Scorpio that fit in two halfs and tighten together with the bolt but i've never really looked into that yet
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy! |
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Jonnycab
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #2 on: Jan 14th, 2007, 1:30am » |
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Cheers Stuart,
Not really into dropping the whole subframe......but if that's the only way to do it then I reckon it's gonna be going in the garage to be done 
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Jonnycab
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #3 on: Jan 15th, 2007, 12:31am » |
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An update....
I got underneath the back today armed with a 100 watt inspection lamp & the top arm bushes look fine.. ....so do the front facing bushes & the wide bottom ones.
Maybe it was just lack of light & shadows that made them look as though they were pulling outwards .......I admit, I did use a torch with failing batteries the first time I looked at them.
So if it ain't the bushes....then what is it that makes the rear wheels camber out at the bottom ?
The shocks seem okay....one bounce then settles.......
There is no leakage from the shocks (I assume they aren't gas).
The only other thing I can think of is the springs....(weak & possibly bending outwards slightly).....but they look fine (put a 12" straight edge ruler against them & they were straight).
The wheels turn fine & no grinding can be heard from the bearings......I read somewhere that if you hold the spring & turn the wheel, & you feel a vibration through the spring, then the bearings are worn........no vibration felt 
Also wheels are solid when trying to move them side to side & top to bottom.....no movement......
I'm stumped .....but I'm thinking shocks.
The car is lower at the back than it should be....which usually causes negative camber.....& as far as I know, this is usually caused by worn shocks.
Both rear wheels camber at pretty much the same angle & the shocks have probably never been replaced.
They aren't too expensive to buy, so I may replace them & see what happens
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Highlander
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #4 on: Jan 15th, 2007, 8:56am » |
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Jack it up at the rear slowly while watching underneath, I still think its more likely to be the bushes, did it settle to a normal height when you lowered the jack the last time then drop once you moved off?
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #5 on: Jan 15th, 2007, 9:05am » |
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on Jan 15th, 2007, 8:56am, Highlander wrote:| Jack it up at the rear slowly while watching underneath, I still think its more likely to be the bushes, did it settle to a normal height when you lowered the jack the last time then drop once you moved off? |
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Yes....but the only reason it was higher was because the rear wheels were cambering inwards, until I moved off.
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martin_rowe
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #6 on: Jan 15th, 2007, 9:14am » |
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worn /weak springs or lowered rear suspension cause more negitive camber to rear wheels (lean in more at top), on quick glance looks like it should be about 1/4 degree neg on the rear, its not adjustable, though some have 'played' abuot with wedges behind the beareing housing.
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harry.m1byt
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #7 on: Jan 15th, 2007, 10:18am » |
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Ordinary shock absorbers don't make any difference to the suspension height, they only provide damping.
If the back end looks low then my first suspect would be the springs or the bushes. If the bushes look OK, then I would be inclined to compare the length of the springs with the weight on, with another identical car. It might also be worth looking carefully for broken springs to, they break at their extreme ends and it is not always obvious that they have broken - other than the sag.
My monies on the springs being tired, especially in an hard working vehicle like a taxi.
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lurchy666
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #8 on: Jan 15th, 2007, 5:26pm » |
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could be rear diff mounting the rubber in it could have perrished its a common thing on granadas
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bootiful-scorpios
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #9 on: Jan 15th, 2007, 8:32pm » |
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johnnycab, are you losing tyre tread on the inside of ya back tyres or tyre?
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harry.m1byt
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #10 on: Jan 15th, 2007, 11:34pm » |
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on Jan 15th, 2007, 5:26pm, lurchy666 wrote:| could be rear diff mounting the rubber in it could have perrished its a common thing on granadas |
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Which I don't think would have any effect on the lean angle of the rear wheels.
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mr._floppy
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #11 on: Jan 16th, 2007, 12:48am » |
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The rear bearings are notoriously crafty in their manifold and various manifestations of imminent decrepitude ( eh !  ).
What I mean to say is that my money's on the rear bearings
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Jonnycab
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #12 on: Jan 16th, 2007, 1:03am » |
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on Jan 15th, 2007, 8:32pm, bootiful-scorpios wrote:| johnnycab, are you losing tyre tread on the inside of ya back tyres or tyre? |
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I put some new tyres on the rear a couple of months back & they don't seem to be waring more on the inside as yet (I have got 36 psi in them though).
The old tyres were completely bald on the inside though....so the answer to your question bootiful, is probably ....Yes
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Neil W
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #13 on: Jan 16th, 2007, 5:31pm » |
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My money would be on the rear springs, so getting a new pair might be worth while. I recently replaced the front springs on my 1998 car (115000 miles) and was surprised at the difference in height between old and new ones (about 3 inches). OK, this difference will compress under load, but should still lift the back end up a bit.
Hope this helps.
NeilW.
Cosworth saloon
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bootiful-scorpios
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #14 on: Jan 16th, 2007, 5:39pm » |
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hi johnny, we have the same prob as you camber , i did think both of the back tyres were cutting up but ours is worst on the inside edge of passenger side, we are gonna opt for new springs to see how that make things look after , as car dose look as though it sit very low on the back.
your tyres you had changed was the wear the same on both?
is the car giving us a clue due to the fact that only one tyre tread is wearing out ??
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harry.m1byt
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #15 on: Jan 16th, 2007, 6:30pm » |
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Front and rear of mine, you can easily get three larger fingers in horizontal, between the tyre and wing at the top. Not very scientific I know, but it gives a rough guide to how it should be with no load.
If the spring is in doubt, measure its length under normal load and compare that to another car that looks right.
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bootiful-scorpios
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #16 on: Jan 16th, 2007, 7:58pm » |
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hi harry,i cant fit 3 fingers horizontal between the tyre and wing! now went out to try i was lucky to fit in 1 
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Highlander
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #17 on: Jan 16th, 2007, 8:11pm » |
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Yep threes about right depending on how big your fingers are
Bootiful-scorpios your name isnt by any chance Hagrid?
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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bootiful-scorpios
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #18 on: Jan 16th, 2007, 8:21pm » |
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what hagrid from harry potter
no lol he is huge !!!! im tiny lol
he would fit nothing under the gap well nothing i can think of any way
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Re: Rear wheel negative camber
« Reply #19 on: Jan 17th, 2007, 12:33am » |
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bootiful....looking at your car in the pic, your rear wheels seem to be in the same position mine are......& yes, both tyres were worn on the inside
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