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tintin
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Non-starter
« on: Jan 21st, 2007, 5:06pm » |
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The woes continue 
The car had a leaky rad, and the battery was discharging overnight, so i had left it over christmas. It had jump-started fine before christmas.
Went to start it today, noticed about 10 pints of water in the rear passenger footwell. Bailed it out, checked rad, full of water still. Went to jump it, and it turns over fine and tries to start but as soon as it catches it dies again. Interestingly as it turns over, the speedo goes up to about 30mph. The revs get up to 1200rpm as it tries to catch.
Took the battery out, it is a 55Ahr, 495CCA Exide Type ES4 (hmmm....). Has not been a problem since i got the car February 2006 (apart from a few alarm going off incidents lately). Never had any electric problems before. Also, i noticed lots of rust and rubbish under the battery, and the fuse box cover just lifted off. I suspect i have been living on borrowed time. Heres some pics....
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/tintin74/DSC00133.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/tintin74/DSC00132.jpg
I assume the water ingress is because the battery cover was not seated back properly after jump starting in Dec. The non-starting i am more stumped by. Well may just be a duff battery, although after disconnecting from the other car, it had 11.4V in it, so it is taking charge. More worrying would be a damp fusebox, would this cause the symptoms described? Also, why is the speedo jumping up? If the car thinks its travelling at speed in park, would it turn itself off?
The battery is now on charge, i will see if it gets to full charge, and if it then loses it. Any ideas if i can dry out the fuse box in situ, or is it a hoick out job? Whos got the best deal on batteries?
MOT is out, tax out end of Jan 
Sorry for the rant, but wanted to be as specific as possible.
Cheers
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solarpanel
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #1 on: Jan 21st, 2007, 7:13pm » |
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take the centre out of the auxfuse box you may find it full of water
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tintin
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #2 on: Jan 22nd, 2007, 10:50pm » |
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ok, think we can rule out the battery, charged it, disconnected this morning 8am, its still reading 13.6V now. in the car, it drops below 10V overnight.
so i guess this is either fuse box or ecu is damp, as water ingresses through bulkhead. time to get the spanners out.... taken a day off work thursday. might get the radiator done too. the battery tray will have to wait to get welded
any tips on drying out the auxiliary fuse box (SP i assume the auxiliary is the one by the battery). also, any on the ecu, i know its under the glove box, and therein is all my knowledge. 
Countdown has begun....
cheers
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Simmo
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #3 on: Jan 23rd, 2007, 8:13am » |
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Tintin, the removal of the fusebox is easy. It is held in by two bolts at the front end. I have some photos of one which I'll try and post. If you have an e-mail address perhaps you'd send it via a PM as that might be more successful!!. Essentially there are 5 or 6 layers each of which has 'tracks' on the underside in which the copper conducters sit. I would suggest that the easiest way is to remove it, lay it on its side, gently prise each layer apart without fully separating them and apply warmth in the guise of a hairdryer or leave it overnight in the airing cupboard. The fact that the battery drains overnight could of course mean that there is a component drawing current such as the glovebox light,boot lamp or even the cigarette lighter all of which have been causes in the past. You need to check for drain with everything off and then,if you get a reading, try pulling a few fuses to try and identify the circuit. HTH,Mike. UPDATE: Have just sent an e-mail to the address on your profile.
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tintin
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #4 on: Jan 23rd, 2007, 9:43am » |
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two bolts, sounds doable thanks for the advice, i will check the email when i get home.
the drain came on when it started raining, and now i have a puddle in the footwell, so i am going with damp fusebox/ecu. once they are dry and hopefully the car is starting, and the radiator has been fixed, i will check for drains !!
thanks for the help,
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Simmo
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #5 on: Jan 23rd, 2007, 12:09pm » |
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When you remove the fusebox you will see that there is a large,conical sleeve which holds the loom as it passes through the bulkhead. That is a likely source of water and recent post suggest putting silicone or similar on the sleeve when re-fitting the box and of course ensuring that it is properly seated in the actual bulkhead.
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tintin
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #6 on: Jan 23rd, 2007, 3:11pm » |
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cool, will get some sealant on the way home..... although given the state of my battery tray, cavity filler may be more appropriate !!
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tintin
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #7 on: Jan 23rd, 2007, 6:43pm » |
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battery now reads 12.8V still standing out of car  so can i assume its on its way out?
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tintin
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #8 on: Jan 24th, 2007, 6:56pm » |
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Hiya,
Ok, i have taken the top off, removed the two bolts, unclipped the two side clips, middle section is now loose, but still attached at the back. where is the darned clip holding it back there, there is no room to see !!
simmo, got an email, but bill gates blocked the attachments, can you send zipped?
Many thanks,
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Highlander
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #9 on: Jan 24th, 2007, 6:58pm » |
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Isnt it just the wiring holding it in Sam? can you turn it over and unclip the connectors?
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy! |
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tintin
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #10 on: Jan 24th, 2007, 7:03pm » |
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the bottom section has a plastic tube disappearing into the bulkhead. i am trying to remove the middle section from the bottom section.
i didnt want to twist it in case wires snapped inside the tubing. something on the bulkhead face of the fusebox holding it to the bottom section, the front and sides are free.
good news is that no more water has appeared inside the car, and the battery tray is dry now (and i have big 2" drain holes all over it )
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Simmo
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #11 on: Jan 24th, 2007, 9:28pm » |
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Tintin. I take it that you got both e-mails and it was the second one that you are having problems with. Will get help to try and sort in the morning. I think Highlander is correct in that you have to disconnect the box from the connectors which are underneath as there are a number of them and all the wires feed back through that large 'sleeve' in to the bulkhead. If you can free off the front ones I think you'll find that as the body of the box lifts the others are visible. I have a box in front of me and at the back there are two lugs which could locate under a bracket or similar. To remove you would have to pull the unit forward and slightly upwards at the same time. Try this.
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tintin
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #12 on: Jan 24th, 2007, 10:59pm » |
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Hi, only got one, .lnk file attached i think
too cold and dark now, will have another go tomorrow morning
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tintin
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #13 on: Jan 25th, 2007, 3:28pm » |
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ok, cant get the danged thing out, but my thoughts have shifted to the ecu now. the battery tray is bone dry..... but when i put my hand under the glove box, there is a tray with padding lining the bottom. this is absolutely soaking (i can press the padding and water pours out). so, round 2, i am taking the ecu out !!
i read spannerdemons notes for Geoff, "just unclip it", hmmmm i will go out with a torch.... anyone taken it out before?
cheers
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tintin
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #14 on: Jan 25th, 2007, 4:31pm » |
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ha ha im so useless, i cant get that out either...is it rivetted in?
reconnected the battery, cranks it over fine, no start
checked the PATS, alarmed it flashes slowly, no alarm = no light. turn ignition on solid light for 2 secs, then flashes rapidly, but no code after, just flashes rapidly continually.
does this sound like a key being forgotten? i hadnt used it for 3 weeks....or just a damp ecu?
if so, have one black key  i have a spare red key and 2 spare black keys, can any of these be used. i presume this is a FMD to get a red key.
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tintin
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #16 on: Jan 25th, 2007, 5:00pm » |
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yep, read that, but im not getting a code flashing.... i suspect the ecu is damp and kicking it out, but i've never owned a car with an ecu before so no idea what the next step is (i cant afford to get ford to pick it up, just blown my money on a donor car !! and tax is running out....
its at times like these that my old mini starts to make sense
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Dave
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #17 on: Jan 25th, 2007, 7:30pm » |
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Have you tried leaving the ignition on for a few minutes? It may start to flash a code then, leave it for maybe 2 minutes  Are the PATS fuses ok? Think it uses numbers 16 and 17 in the central fusebox.
EDIT Yes the ecu is in a case that is joined by rivets, bit of a swine to get out if mine is anything to go by
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TiberiuS
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #18 on: Jan 25th, 2007, 7:50pm » |
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Sam, don't fret mate 
Water on the looms is likely messing the ECU and PATS modules up, get to as much of the wiring/connectors as you can, dry them and spray the connectors with WD40, Trying to start as-is isn't going to do you any favours. Get it dry first, putting the battery back on with wet looms is just going to kill the battery and risk damaging the modules...
Good luck.
Regards, Bruce.
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tintin
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Re: Non-starter
« Reply #19 on: Jan 26th, 2007, 3:11pm » |
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cheers all, i will check the fuses.....i take it if the PATS is not being activated the engine will still turn but not start? i would have thought it would kill the whole starting procedure
Dave, can you remember which ones/how many to drill (rivets)? its all a bit cramped down there, i will probably end up drilling through anything and everything
Bruce, its absolutely soaking down there, i run a finger along the foam in the cradle and half a cup of water drips out, its saturated, so i am pretty sure it all needs to come out. i have access to another ecu, so i think i will drill this one out, and try the other one to see if it starts the car. if so, i need to dry it all out and find where the water is getting in to seal it.
will keep you all posted 
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