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Topic: Heater Problems (Read 539 times) |
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T_reg
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Heater Problems
« on: Feb 5th, 2007, 8:17pm » |
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1997 Ultima Estate 2.3 16V.
Having suffered an overheat due to a stuck thermostat, after it was replaced and rad flushed and refilled, the heater didn't work, although to be honest not sure how inefficient it was before the overheat as not had cause to use the heater since last winter.
From previous threads on here noticed water pipe supply to matrix was very hot and return was cool. So flushed and back flushed through the heater matrix all clear no blockages or gunge. Thereafter the heater did produce some heat (with control set to HI) that is adequate, so I think initially there was definitely an air lock as now both supply and return pipes are equally as hot. However if fan is turned up this quickly dissipates to no heat, previous threads indicate this points to a faulty matrix. And they can still have blockages and flush through ok due to a kind of reservoir chamber bypassing the matrix route (but not sure how true this is though).
Additionally a CC reset produces a code 57 or sometimes 07 (same thing apparently) indicating a faulty HBC (Heater Blower Controller), however when CC is set to auto the fan will start on full speed then gradually slow as the car warms up, which to me says HBC is working fine. I can clear the error code 57 as per website instructions by holding in the AC and recirc buttons long enough after doing a reset. If I then do another CC reset it will complete ok to 00, but after I drive the car then repeat it will error on 57 again.
Worryingly the cooling system seems to be slowly losing water, but no visible leaks anywhere including inside the car i.e. foot wells so matrix would appear to be not leaking, although clearly not functioning. But there is always a kind of 'hot' or burning smell noticeable when you get out of the car after a journey, so not sure if a water leak is being evaporated by the heat of the engine casing or manifold or exhaust. May be the burning smell is the antifreeze amongst the leaking water.
I'm fairly sure the head gasket is ok, as no water droplets or steam coming out of the exhaust tailpipe, no oil in water top up reservoir, and no foam in oil filler cap, also performance is fine just the same as before. And I have done the Johnny cab method of expelling air from the cooling system using the extended clear tube, see link below.
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action= display;num=1142380998;start=15#15
There seems to be some useful info here http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/leaks on visible and invisible leaks, including the core plugs.
But I'm still puzzled by the 'burning' or 'hot' smell. And can't understand why the HBC is erroring 57' when it seems to be working.
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Jonnycab
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Re: Heater Problems
« Reply #1 on: Feb 8th, 2007, 1:27am » |
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Hi....& welcome to the site 
From what you've said, then you sound as though you've convinced yourself that the matrix needs replacing....& you may well be right.
No heat, strange smell...it does sound familiar 
When you flushed the matrix (I'm assuming with a hose pipe), was there much resistance...i.e...did the hose want to force itself out.
A good matrix should have no real resistance, but if the veins are restricted (scaled up etc), then it will have resistance.
Hot water will flow through the veins but obviously not at the volume it should. So when you turn on the fan, it cools the matrix very quickly. Also the outlet pipe should have cooled down as well.
The only other place I would suggest you look for a leak is the inlet manifold, behind the T-stat housing. Put your hand under the T-stat housing & feel underneath the ECT for wetness.
The smell does sound as though there is a leak in the matrix as well, but it may only be a small one, so no evidence of leakage will show on the carpet.
If you pull off the underneath of the dash, then with a torch you should be able to see the end of the matrix with the pipes going through the bulkhead....you may see some wetness, if not then feel the underlay under the heater box for any wetness.
Regarding code '57'....I get this as well, & my HBC also seems to be fine. I do have the occasional problem with the air distribution switch though (wont blow down when set to up/down unless you wiggle it....faulty pot probably). I wonder whether that would cause a code '57' as well ? 
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T_reg
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Re: Heater Problems
« Reply #2 on: Feb 8th, 2007, 6:51pm » |
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When I flushed the matrix there was no resistance at all and clear water coming through, as per jonnycab's suggestions I will check under the dash closer and inlet manifold, however just to re-iterate the smell is only evident outside the car from the engine area.
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T_reg
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Re: Heater Problems
« Reply #3 on: Feb 13th, 2007, 1:33am » |
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As per one of Jonnycab's suggestions I've found the leak it's on the inlet manifold area up behind the thermostat. You can see a slight drip when the engine is reved up. Not sure how to difficult a job it is to remove the inlet manifold or gain access to locate exact source of leak i.e. crack or a seal, can't seem to find any procedures on the website.
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Simmo
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Re: Heater Problems
« Reply #4 on: Feb 13th, 2007, 8:21am » |
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T Reg, It souds like the common fault on the 2.3 in that the leak is around the thermostat housing on this plastic manifold. There have been successful repairs but others have replaced the manifold. I'm sure you'll get advice from both 'parties' in the near future.
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Jonnycab
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Re: Heater Problems
« Reply #5 on: Feb 13th, 2007, 10:25am » |
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I managed to repair my manifold while still on the car about 5 months ago....& it actually worked. Unfortunately, a couple of weeks ago, I noticed a slight wetness underneath again. 
It's dry again now after putting about a quarter of a bottle of Wynns stop leak in....naughty, naughty, slapped wrists
I am getting another cracked manifold in a couple of days, & will attempt to repair it on the bench.......I'm determined to repair one eventually 
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T_reg
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Re: Heater Problems
« Reply #6 on: Feb 13th, 2007, 11:54am » |
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How did you mange to effect the repair initially, with quiksteel or chemical metal (epoxy filler/adhesive).
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Jonnycab
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Re: Heater Problems
« Reply #7 on: Feb 13th, 2007, 12:00pm » |
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Used a hot knife to seal the crack & used quicksteel to stengthen it
The brass nut that the ECT screws into had come out also. This was fixed back in using quicksteel also. Although, I'm pretty sure that this part of the repair is the part that has leaked again
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Snoopy
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Re: Heater Problems
« Reply #8 on: Feb 13th, 2007, 1:49pm » |
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Replies from duplicate posting Quote: T_reg
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Re: Heater Problems
« Reply #1 on: Today at 1:34am »
As per one of Jonnycab's suggestions I've found the leak it's on the inlet manifold area up behind the thermostat. You can see a slight drip when the engine is reved up. Not sure how to difficult a job it is to remove the inlet manifold or gain access to locate exact source of leak i.e. crack or a seal, can't seem to find any procedures on the website.
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Quote: Daven
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Re: Heater Problems
« Reply #2 on: Today at 8:34am » Quote Quote Modify Modify Remove Remove
I had to replace the inlet gasket on my 2.0l - biggest problem was finding a new one for sensible money! Not sure about the 2.3 but the 2.0l is made of a 10mm thick bit of plastic with rubber seals so a bog standard paper one is no good!
Was a long mornings work getting the manifold off!
Dave
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edited by Snoopy to save duplication of posts .
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T_reg
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Re: Heater Problems
« Reply #9 on: Feb 13th, 2007, 7:55pm » |
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Did you have to take off much to access the area, fuel rail etc ?
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Jonnycab
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Re: Heater Problems
« Reply #10 on: Feb 14th, 2007, 12:51am » |
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Took off air trunking to throttle, drained about 3 litres of coolant & removed thermostat housing & thermostat & removed matrix pipe....oh & of course the ECT & temp guage sender...
I found that removing all these gave pretty good access...
Hope this helps
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Jonnycab
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Re: Heater Problems
« Reply #11 on: Feb 15th, 2007, 11:08pm » |
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Guess what .....My repair has just failed......
The leak I was talking about had obviously weakened the quicksteel to the point where the repair just couldn't take the pressure anymore, resulting in the ECT & all the coolant shooting out
Oh well, back to the drawing board 
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