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Topic: Pinking again....again (Read 2064 times) |
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Pinking again....again
« on: Apr 15th, 2007, 10:28pm » |
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I thought I'd almost got rid of the pinking a few months back....but it's come back again 
It doesn't notice when moving, but if the car sits at tickover for a while.....traffic jam etc..... then when pulling off, the rattle is quite heavy
So I'm thinking that it must be due to lack of cooling, but I checked the fans at idle & they do come on & the engine temp on the dash is within the limits
As most of you who have read my old posts on this subject will know....the ECT, IAT, T-stat, FPR are all new & the cooling system is circulating perfectly (had a new pump last year).
I'm now, after trying everything to rectify the problem, considering going to Ford with the almost new PCM that I picked up recently, & getting them to re-program it to work with the car.....how much will that cost 
P.S.....that 'Fuel Cat' was a con, & I feel as though I've been suckered ... it does absolutely nothing to affect the general running of the vehicle or fuel consumption.....
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
 
Posts: 2257
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #1 on: Apr 15th, 2007, 10:43pm » |
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Sorry to go OT Jonny, but I thought you said a while back that the Fuel Cat had made a difference...gotta say I toyed with the idea of getting one on your opinion...much to my better sense it has to be said .
In the days when we ran the Capri, we got pinking once and it was cured by a de-coke and new dizzy/leads...Tried new plugs yet?
Good luck mate.
Regards, Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #2 on: Apr 15th, 2007, 11:17pm » |
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The Fuel Cat seemed to work for a while...but then again every time I replaced a part with something new, it also seemed to work for a while.
I may have thought that the fuel cat was the answer to the problem...it seemed to work for a while (as everything else I did) but my head got the better of me & convinced me that a product like this could not possibly work on a modern car with a computer controlled engine  .... my MK1 Granny seems to run fine with one fitted though 
As I said before...everytime I replace something, the pinking disappears, but then comes back again. It's been fine for a few months now (the odd crack on acceleration), but for some reason it's come back....big time
The plugs are new...well 10,000 miles...newish
My only theory on the matter...after trying everything else....is that the PCM has a fault & is not taking the correct readings from the various replaced sensors.
I've always considered (in older cars) the cause of pinking to be a problem with the timing...so as the Scorp cannot be timed manually, then I'm convinced that little silver box is throwing a wobbly
If anyone can come up with a more logical explanation, then I'd be very interested in reading it
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #3 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 7:59am » |
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hi jc
can you recap what parts have been changed? i see ECT, IAT, T-stat, FPR. is this all?
you think it might be heat related. have you tried running with the cover off the sparkplugs? or changing/swapping round the coil packs? maybe even going for a cooler/hotter plug?
next thing would be getting a full VE scan done at one of the meets. i could then have a look at the data and compare it to mine (i'd run it on petrol for a few days). i'll have a think about what things to scan for and put it in the obd section.
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Dave
Senior Member
Tourmallard 24v (ex-owner)
Posts: 1984
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #4 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 8:02am » |
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Jonny,
does it make a difference if you use , for example, Optimax or normal unleaded?
What about some spark plugs that work better at a higher heat range - or some that have better insulation? Does such a thing exist Was thinking these may cope with the periods of idling better.
Is your MAP sensor ok? I read that manifold pressure can have an effect on pinking.
Cheers
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Life after the Scorpio ain't easy..
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #5 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 9:09am » |
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hi there
found this.
what type of plugs do you have?
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #6 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 9:29am » |
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I'm using Motorcraft AGPS 22P1's, which are the right ones for the car.
I could try using a different rated plug, but i can't see why my car would be better using them when all other 2.3's seem to run fine on the original spec plugs....I'll try running with the sparkplug cover removed & see if that makes a difference.
I've not changed the MAP sensor, don't really know much about it....next time I'm at the local breakers, I'll get one from the cheap doner Scorpio I've found
P.S......can anyone point out the MAP sensor please
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pete from Hull
Senior Member
Non Scorpio at the moment, but still interested...
Posts: 1365
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #7 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 11:37am » |
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Are you running on LPG? I was told that if it started pinking I should set the plug gaps smaller but I can't remember how much as mine never has a pinking problem so I havn't had to do it.
I think it is the MAF sensor your after which is in the air intake between the filter and the muffler, it has a multiplug on and is held on by 2 clips and a jubilee clip...
hth
Pete
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Bring back fair wages.........
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #8 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 2:42pm » |
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No LPG, just petrol & the MAF is fine
A thought has occurred to me regarding the spark plugs being right for the engine. A new engine was fitted (by previous owner) about 2 1/2 years ago.
I was told that the engine was brand new from Ford, so if it is under three years old, then there's a good chance that it is a 2.3 Galaxy engine.
Does anyone know if the 2.3 Galaxy uses different plugs to the 2.3 Scorp?.....It's a long shot
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #9 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 4:42pm » |
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It appears that the Galaxy does use the same plugs....so that's that theory out of the window
I may try setting the plug gap to 0.8 mm & see if it makes a difference
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #10 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 5:07pm » |
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hi jc
the gap on the 2.3 is 1mm. 0.8mm is for running on lpg only.
what sort of mileage has your car done? is this with the same coil packs?
hth
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #11 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 5:13pm » |
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Mileage is 156K, but only 58K on new engine & I replaced the coil packs last year, & besides, the car has no mis-fire issues, in fact it runs great & tickover is great....it's just that it has a tendency to pink when hot
I know that the gap is 1mm for Motorcraft & NGK, but Champion reckon 0.8mm for their plugs. That's what made me think of resetting the gap to 0.8mm & seing how it went
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #12 on: Apr 16th, 2007, 5:50pm » |
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hi jc
have you changed the lambda sensor?
how long does it happen for? a few seconds or untill it cools down a bit?
i'd love to see what your fuel trims were like when this is happening, as you know, one of the causes can be a weak mixture.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #13 on: Apr 17th, 2007, 12:30am » |
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No, I haven't changed the lambda sensor, as I've never had any fault codes come up on my little Autel OBD2 reader indicating that there may be a problem in that area....but I did get a code up when I plugged it into my mates 2.3 estate which indicated that he had a problem in that area
It seems to pink for a while, until it gets on a run...then again, tonight I've not noticed it, but then again I haven't been sitting in traffic or idling for any length of time
Also I removed the fuel cat today...I wonder if the fuel cat had developed a problem internally...that I suppose would explain why it has suddenly got really bad again in last fortnight & the fact that I didn't really hear any pinking tonight may be a confirmation of this 
I don't know how the fuel cat works but as far as I know it contains a tin alloy & magnets & doesn't add anything to the petrol, it conditions & re-arranges the molecules in the Petrol to give "a more complete combustion"
If the fuel cat has broken down internally...then might this cause a restriction/resistance in fuel flow, thus causing a fuel pressure issue & hence pinking ?
I must admit, I did blow through it & it seemed a tad harder than blowing through a piece of un-restricted pipe, but not alot. I don't know the internal workings of the fuel cat, but I intend to take it apart & have a look
Or maybe just another wild stab in the dark ....I suppose I'll know if the car starts pinking badly again next time I'm in traffic
Still gonna try the plug gap resetting though...I've got a set of NGK's in the shed, so I may compromise & set them to 0.9mm
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #14 on: Apr 18th, 2007, 12:34am » |
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Working again tonight & have not noticed any bad pinking, just a slight crack when flooring it....so it seems likely that the fuel cat may well have been the problem 
It's said to last for 250K miles but is only guaranteed for 5k miles ....I suppose it must have done about 20k miles since fitted (it's been in & out of the car a couple of time for comparisons)...so it may well be shot
Regarding the quick crack when flooring it...I'm gonna put the NGK's in, set to 0.9mm & see if that cures the problem
Thanks Andrew for the time taken in offering advice & it would have been good to get a scan done & compare the results with your car....but being hundreds of miles away, then it's not really an option....even if we met half way, then it would probably be somewhere in Yorkshire
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #15 on: Apr 18th, 2007, 7:59am » |
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hi jc
Thanks Andrew for the time taken in offering advice & it would have been good to get a scan done & compare the results with your car....but being hundreds of miles away, then it's not really an option....even if we met half way, then it would probably be somewhere in Yorkshire
funny you should say that because i'll be in yorkshire on the 3rd of june! 
re the lambda sensor and error codes. the only codes if seen are for the built in heater not working. ones for the fueling are seperate. i'm wondering if it's flatlining at idle (very lazy switching) and only working when you rev the engine (driving).
re MAF. i've worked on a car where the MAf was miles out with no code. normally it's about 0.45 at idle. this one was at 10! it made a big difference to the running of the car when changed. you don't appear to have a running issue in general, though, hence my thoughts on the lambda.
just a though, can you check the wiring/plug to the crank shaft sensor. this is one of the sensors that stop pinking/knocking.
hth
btw, you can check the output from the lambda with a meter set for 2volts (1 volt lambda). be carefull of the exhaust.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #16 on: Apr 18th, 2007, 9:05am » |
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I'll check the lambda & as for the crank shaft sensor...I'll be down the breakers either later or tomorrow to get a couple more parts off that Scorpio, so I'll get the sensor as well.
As for the MAF, I've never suspected it, but I did replace it with the one I got from the above Scorp & there was no difference
Cheers
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tintin
Full Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 592
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #17 on: Apr 18th, 2007, 11:20am » |
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are the lambdas the same as the cossie ones? if so, i have a couple of brand new ones needing a good home.....bought them but garage wouldnt fit them, would only fit their own ones 
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'95 Cosworth Ultima
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #18 on: Apr 20th, 2007, 3:09am » |
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Thanks for the offer TIntin, but I think they are different & the 2.3 only has one
Andrew....I haven't checked the lambda with the mutimeter yet, it's a job I intend to do tomorrow. Also, I've got hold of another crankshaft sensor (couple of quid, second hand) & will stick that in tomorrow as well, although I reckon it ain't gonna be easy....the vehicle I took it from had had the inlet manifold removed (by me), so it was easy to get out from above.
This time it's gonna be an underneath job, so I'm gonna be working blind
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Pinking again....again
« Reply #19 on: Apr 20th, 2007, 7:27am » |
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hi jc
re the lambda's. they're all the same. as you said, the 2.3 only has the one pre cat one. you should get the old one off the scrapper as it's easier to change to universal lambda's when you can change the plug on the bench.
good luck. we'll find this issue yet!
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