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Topic: Fuel pump / electrics (Read 10570 times) |
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
  
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #40 on: May 22nd, 2007, 9:37pm » |
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Stuart, I know I keep saying this but are you certain you've got an uninterrupted 12v going to the pump?
Fuel blockage sounds plausible, it was my first guess; but would the engine run ok initially and rev so smoothly if there was a blockage?
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #41 on: May 22nd, 2007, 9:52pm » |
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we tried a direct 12v to the pump from another battery and it didnt start either. the pump was running ok
P.s. Spanner, the business is going great thanks, very busy, booked solid for the next three weeks 
p.p.s. the tanks already been off! 
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #42 on: May 22nd, 2007, 10:04pm » |
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Another long shot but have you tried another FPR? Can you measure the pressure at the rail?
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #43 on: May 22nd, 2007, 10:08pm » |
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I've just removed one today to try it in Alastairs, not able to test the pressure no
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #44 on: May 23rd, 2007, 12:16am » |
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on May 22nd, 2007, 9:31pm, Highlander wrote:
I dont have access to a (working) 2.3 (sorry Alastair) so could someone with a 2.3 possibly disconnect their fuel line beside the manifold and see if the fuel pumps continuously when the ignition is on?
This one pumps for a split second then stops.
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I'll check it tomorrow
Dave
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Highlander
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #45 on: May 23rd, 2007, 12:23am » |
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ty
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #46 on: May 23rd, 2007, 12:26am » |
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Just realised the time, should read I'll check it today
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Highlander
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #48 on: May 23rd, 2007, 8:02am » |
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lol at least he admitted it 
No this one definitely has fuel (we've had the tank off and struggled to get it back on due to the weight)
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #49 on: May 23rd, 2007, 8:56am » |
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Stuart,
I hadn't realised you had tried a permanent supply to run the pump all the time. They definitely will cut out if they sense excess pressure, as the pump has it's own overload protection.
In that case I have to concur with Spanners, sounds like a blockage.
What I would now do is make up a simple bit of test kit.....A gallon can of fuel with a spare pump in it, on a permanent 12 volt supply and pipe it directly on to the rail, then see how / if it runs. If it runs ok, then go to the filter with can / pump and stick fuel in here, and so on, working your way back.....
AHBS are you sure the filter is clear?
Regards Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #50 on: May 23rd, 2007, 11:20am » |
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Stuart
Tried as you asked fuel line disconnected (no pressure) pump runs for 1 second.
Approx 8 on/offs to fill a 450g marmalade jar.
Just to add confusion, tried disabling PATS by wrapping the key in foil. If I did as above I got the same result, BUT if I tried to start it with PATS disabled, from then on it would only pump momentarily about a teaspoon of petrol with each on/off.
Once the foil removed all OK.
Tried it several times with the same result i.e. barely any petrol after trying to start with PATS disabled.
Dave
One of those things you stir your tea with as you can't say teaspoon
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Alastair
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2.3 Ghia X & MGB Roadster
Posts: 129
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #51 on: May 23rd, 2007, 7:06pm » |
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You probably won't believe this (Stuart will having done all the work so far) but the car started first turn again tonight (6.30 - having sat for near enough
24 hours and ran perfectly for 12 minutes. During this time it drove out and back into the drive, again would rev through the whole range or sit rock steady at 850 revs. temp gauge at normal all switches, lights, CD etc. working perfectly. Then hesitated a couple of times and died. last night 11 mins tonight 12 mins. What little hair is left is fastly disappearing.
Alastair
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #52 on: May 23rd, 2007, 7:21pm » |
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Guys, the fact that it runs so well until it dies, I'd find it hard to believe there was a blockage there - surely just revving it would kill the engine long before it died at idle?
Now Tompion says it'll only put out a tea$p00n () of fuel if the PATS was playing up, it ties in with what Stuart said about the coke bottle top.
Perhaps it's something wrong in the PATS system, the immobiliser is getting tripped somehow?
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Alastair
Full Member
2.3 Ghia X & MGB Roadster
Posts: 129
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #53 on: May 23rd, 2007, 7:29pm » |
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Hi Tiberius
Is it possible to bypass / disconnect the PATS box and run the car or does disconnecting it cause the immobiliser to shut everything down
Alastair
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #54 on: May 23rd, 2007, 7:43pm » |
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Alastair, I have no idea mate - Stuart knows far more than I, if there's a way I'm sure he'll know
But it is sounding like some kind of PATS electrical issue to me, if the pump runs ok and it puts enough fuel through until the moment the car coughs and dies I don't see how it could be a blockage in the system, revving the engine up to 5k would put far more strain on the system than letting it idle, so it would surely splutter and die when revved?
I'll keep thinking, this has got me very curious
Regards, Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #55 on: May 23rd, 2007, 8:12pm » |
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Alasdair,
If you can get a pats box from a good car, to test yours simply tape the key that goes with the pats box to the box and plug it in, then see if the problem still exists.
Like Bruce, this ones got me very curious
Regards Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #56 on: May 23rd, 2007, 9:32pm » |
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What a nightmare for you Alistair!! I think we are ALL very curious about this.
I personally STILL think that it's a blockage. A fuel line with an obstruction in it, or a rubber fuel hose that has collapsed internally or a component that's completely gunged up.
I've had hoses and pipes like this before. To all intents and purposes they look perfectly OK, but I think, deep in your pipework there IS something which has caused an almost total blockage, and which has now moved further up the system. Time will tell.
Really rooting for you anyway. I'm sure we all are.
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #57 on: May 24th, 2007, 12:24am » |
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1. The car starts perfectly when left overnight or at least for a good few hours.
2. Once it starts the car runs perfectly for almost exactly the same length of time before it dies and cannot be restarted.
Theres a clue there but I cant see it yet.
I cant see it being the PATS due to the above two symptoms.
I'm still thinking along the lines of either a pressure build up (or loss) in the fuel system which slowly gets worse over this 10-12 minute period that the engine runs.
OR as Dave said earlier something electrical overheating until it fails/jams and wont work until it cools down
looks like the pump in a bucket then
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #58 on: May 24th, 2007, 3:30am » |
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Points 1 & 2 still point towards the fpr, but you said you replaced it  ....unless the replacment is faulty as well ?
Not sure if you remember, but in one of my posts last year, I mentioned that a brand new fpr I bought from FMD was infact faulty
After fitting it, the Scorp had trouble starting when hot....maybe this was the beginning of a total fuel shut off...... It wasn't on the car long enough to get any worse & FMD refunded my money....eventually
I wonder what the rate of flow, from the fpr back to the tank is & can it be measured to see if it becomes less over the 10 or 12 minutes that car runs for ?
Also...have you tried pulling the fpr vacuum pipe from the throttle & plugging it, to see if it makes a difference ?
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #59 on: May 24th, 2007, 3:40am » |
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Just another wild stab in the dark....
Stuart....You wrote...."perfect idle, then slight cough, uneven running, then dies"....
Faulty IACV ?
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