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Topic: Fuel pump / electrics (Read 10564 times) |
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #60 on: May 24th, 2007, 7:59am » |
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Just as a matter of curiosity.
Have you tried a Brand New Fuel Relay? I'm not going to go into the nightmares we had some years ago with another vehicle, but these things can be a total nightmare if you've got an intermittantly failing one.
Only a thought. 
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Highlander
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #61 on: May 24th, 2007, 8:10am » |
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Relay has been changed for another second hand one which worked on another car but car does the same with either relay.
FPR has not been changed yet but I have a good one to try
Jonny, FMD fitted a brand new idle control valve
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #62 on: May 24th, 2007, 9:35am » |
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on May 23rd, 2007, 2:08am, jonnycab wrote:
In that thread it says the AA man "Checked everything I had thought of before checking the amps the fuel pump was drawing."
reading here:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/how_to_central/automotive/1272391.html?p age=1
it mentions measuring the draw to test the fuel pressure.
If I get a chance I'll check the reading on mine (think my meter goes high enough)
On a cautionary note, if you’re testing the pump out of the tank, I’ve read that they can spark internally but doesn’t matter when submerged and that they are cooled by the petrol. – could be exiting to say the least.
Dave
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Dave2302
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2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #63 on: May 24th, 2007, 12:42pm » |
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Hi Stuart,
Just reading back over again, have you definitely bypassed or replaced the fuel filter. An almost totally blocked filter will, when left overnight, drop some particles out then flow adequately for a short time.....
This is why some U/S auto boxes will drive for a few minutes from cold, then as all the debris plugs the filter up it loses drive again...... leave it a while it will drive again for a while, the time periods gradually getting shorter and shorter.
Regards Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #64 on: May 24th, 2007, 1:07pm » |
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A power cut this morning dictated I had some free time.
I removed the fuel pump relay & put an ammeter across pins 1 & 3:
No pressure 2.86Amps
Normal 4.08Amps
Return blocked 5.6Amps
I have a non standard FPR although it should be at normal pressure.
The no pressure reading was pumping into a fuel can, it delivered 5litre’s in 2min 50 seconds.
Dave
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #65 on: May 24th, 2007, 1:31pm » |
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It's a blockage. Absolutely convinced of it.
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Highlander
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #66 on: May 24th, 2007, 6:23pm » |
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I thought it was sugar?? 
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Dave2302
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2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #67 on: May 24th, 2007, 6:34pm » |
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Hi Stuart,
Right I've been thinking....... Oh dear  ......
I realise you are probably doing this as and when you get spare time and on someone else's drive with probably minimal equipment........so lets get down to basics and start with some easy tests.
Run the engine for 11 - 12 minutes until it dies and wont start again. Then with a simple link wire, bridge pins 1 and 3 of the Fuel Pump Relay turn on the Ignition and see:-
a) is the pump running? If no then run a 12v supply to it and when you get the pump running see if it will start
b) will it start ? If no then undo the main fuel pipe at the rail and stick it in a can, then switch on the ignition with bridge in place and see if the running pump produces fuel.
If no, go back to the fuel filter and disconnect the inlet to filter pipe and see if you have fuel with pump running.
These couple of simple checks will pinpoint exactly where the problem lies, with minimal equipment.
If I've confused you and you want me to talk it through with you while you're with the car give me a ring, have pm'd you my number.
I'd come and give you a hand, but I haven't moved up yet LOL
Regards Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #68 on: May 24th, 2007, 7:26pm » |
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LOL Dave, I remember someone else saying to bridge the relay and make sure there was 12v at the pump
You could also plug a 12v LED into one of the injector sockets to check that they're pulsing, if the PATS has cut in, they won't pulse I believe.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Dave2302
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #69 on: May 24th, 2007, 8:20pm » |
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Hi Bruce,
Reading back over the thread he has already put 12v on the pump and it still wouldn't start, so I suggest going straight for option b)..... the disconnect fuel line and see what the delivery is like with a permanant running pump This must be done immediately after the 12 minute run and die though, to see whether it is in fact fuel starved.
Hope you're with me here but I'm just trying to get them in the right ball park with a minimum of tools and diagnostic kit........
Me personally, by now I'd have had the scanner and a fuel pressure gauge connected plus a few test LED's on the pump circuit, injectors and LT ignition all at the same time then run it until it died to see what happened..........
But as I said, he's doing it in precious spare time and probably without full workshop facilities on hand hence the back to basics approach
Regards Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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Highlander
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #70 on: May 24th, 2007, 11:47pm » |
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Yep thats it
Alastair left me a message tonight saying the car once again started and was running perfectly at the time (6 mins) but i havent got back to him to hear how it went.
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #72 on: May 25th, 2007, 9:39am » |
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I still haven't discounted this Stuart. EVIL stuff. Years ago working for a guy who had a Triumph Spitfire, and he had his tank 'doctored' by someone with a grudge against him and his wife. Exactly these symptoms. Annoyingly the last thing I thought to check was the (under bonnet and easy to get at), fuel filter, which turned out to be blocked virtually solid with the stuff.
Petrol and sugar for some reason form the most impenetrable substance going. You'd think that the fuel would just filter through it, but it doesn't. It blocks it up good and proper.
If some kid/hoodie has done it for a laugh, it really wouldn't surprise me. And YES I still think it's a fuel line blockage!! What and Where SORT of blockage is still unknown, but that's what my money's on
Glad business is going good for you. 
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Alastair
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #73 on: May 29th, 2007, 8:38pm » |
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Just in case you thought it had all gone quiet - a quick update
Due to pressure of work on both sides Stuart and I have not managed to look at the car forn a week. However we are scheduled for this Friday so fingers crossed
The situation is the car starts first time and runs for: -
Last Tuesday 11mins
Wednesday 12 mins
Thursday 12 mins
Tonight 14 mins
As reported before while the car is running it will either sit steady at 850rpm or rev freely up and down the full range - then hesitates and dies. when trying to restart immediately afterwards the speedo and rev gauges go round the dials although the battery is sound - is this a clue ?
On Friday we intend to change the fuel filters, FPR and a try a remote fuel supply with different pump.
any other thoughts before Friday would be much appreciated and thanks for all your interest so far.
Alastair
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tintin
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #74 on: May 29th, 2007, 9:44pm » |
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Stuart,
Did you try a new ecu in it? I remember when my ecu was broken, it wouldnt start / almost start, and the dials were swinging round even though it wasnt starting. Might be worth a shot.....if you still have a spare one
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Scorpius
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #75 on: May 29th, 2007, 10:30pm » |
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This may be a totally unrelated idea, but after i stripped, cleaned and rebuilt the main fusebox on my Granada Scorpio, a couple of years ago, i found that i had no fuel pump running. I knew the pump was OK and that it could only be due to something i had done and i started to research the curcuits that operate the pump and the relay that allows it to run in the main fusebox. I discoverd that the positive pin on the fuel pump relay was not contacting when it plugged into the fusebox, but all other pins were OK. I found out where the positive track lead from (withing the fusebox) and bypassed the track with a wire and this fixed the problem.
Are you sure that the fuel pump relay is making perminant connection inside your fusebox and not breaking after a certain time
Ian
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Dave2302
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2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #76 on: May 30th, 2007, 4:00pm » |
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Guys,
We're running backwards here
He's tried an ecu and a separate 12v supply to the pump so that tends to discount fuseboxes, relays, ecu, maybe, possibly, etc etc.
The clue here is that the longer it stands the longer it runs when re- started, i.e. the 14 minute one!
My money is on the fuel filter now.
Regards Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #77 on: May 30th, 2007, 6:39pm » |
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Well, my money's still on some kind of electrical gremlin or PATS issue, but I bow to your knowledge Dave
Anyone want to place bets?
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Dave2302
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2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #78 on: May 30th, 2007, 6:51pm » |
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Knowledge nah....Educated Guess
10 pints of Hurlimann and a packet of Hamlet LOL
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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Spannerdemon
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Re: Fuel pump / electrics
« Reply #79 on: May 30th, 2007, 7:29pm » |
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Fuel pipe collapsed internally causing a blockage. Outwardly appears quite normal, but internally, blocked almost solid. It's a blockage. Thought we'd been there though?
Dunno about Bets. I reckon Dynarod is next!! 
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