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Topic: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - sorted (Read 4424 times) |
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pappa
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VM Diesel 2.5Tdi 90kW
Posts: 259
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2.3 DOHC installation on halt - sorted
« on: Jul 29th, 2007, 3:58pm » |
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Hi there!
My engine dowgrade from 24v to 16v is in its final stages
now. The new engine is in place and I made a new exhaust
pipe with a cat etc. Will write a full report with a pile of
photos one day.
I haven't seen or worked with a 2.3 DOHC Scorps before...
Well I have peeked under the bonnet of one, but never
actually taken a closer look.
So I have a few questions:
1. The coolant hoses need to be sorted. Some of them
are quite obvious like the one that goes to the upper
radiator hole and the one that goes down, but, but...
Is the heater matrix lower hose connected to:
http://www.issikka.net/make/images/engswp/egr_and_waterpump.jpg
the small circled pipe in the picture?
2. Where are the hoses from the EGR (in the same pic) connected?
3. In the picture:
http://www.issikka.net/make/images/engswp/empty_water_hole_and_a_multipl ug.jpg
What is the meaning of that waterhole I've circled in the
picture and what is this multiplug for (also circled)
4. Vacuum pipes for the DOHC 2.3 ? sigh! I've tried finding
information from the site, but in vain. Could someone
throw me some pictures of the 2.3DOHC vacuuming 
Much, much appreciated. There are a few pipes on top
of the inlet manifold, one is for the break booster, that's
ok, one goes down to the fuel fumes recirculator (or
whatever it is called) but then there's these two lonely
black pipes standing up and waiting for some hoses.
Your help is much appreciated, the project is waiting for
these little pieces and some minor adjustments. Then
it's time to try to fire up the beast 
Thanks in advance!
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Kjetil S
Senior Member
2001 BMW 520iat
Posts: 1419
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - advice needed.
« Reply #1 on: Jul 29th, 2007, 5:26pm » |
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The waterhole seems to be where the temp sender sits.
Here's a pic of my 2.0 16v
(Sorry for the poor focus. I took it with my cell phone, and forgot to turn on macro mode)
Edit:
I'll go out and see if I can do some pictures for you. Mine's a 2.0 but it is mostly the same engine.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - advice needed.
« Reply #2 on: Jul 29th, 2007, 5:46pm » |
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Hi...in the first pic that is indeed where the matrix lower hose fits & the two EGR pipes go to the EGR transducer which is mounted near to the back of the air filter box.
In the second picture, as Kjetil says, it is for the temp guage sender, although I've never seen a fitting that looks like that before. Usually it is a brass nut than is sunk into the t-stat housing.
hth...
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Kjetil S
Senior Member
2001 BMW 520iat
Posts: 1419
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - advice needed.
« Reply #3 on: Jul 29th, 2007, 6:03pm » |
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Okay, here they are:
The water hole is indeed for the temp sender (I just checked). I can't find your mysterious multiplug anywhere, so can't help you with that one.
Here's a few pics of the EGR transducer and the matrix lower hose:
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - advice needed.
« Reply #4 on: Jul 29th, 2007, 6:16pm » |
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The multiplug is for the temp guage sender 
The two lonely black pipes are for the vacuum hoses that go to the EGR vacuum regulator (right pipe) & the Evap canister purge valve (left pipe)
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pappa
Full Member
VM Diesel 2.5Tdi 90kW
Posts: 259
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - advice needed.
« Reply #5 on: Jul 29th, 2007, 7:47pm » |
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GLANG!
That's me little head hitting the table when me taking the deepest bow at your directions Gentlemen!
Thanks about a million!
The weird look on the temp cauge sender unit must have something to do with Volga.
This engine was supposed to be installed into a Russian Volga Taxi.
Thanks! Project continues!
p.s. I have a tem sender unit - it won't fit into the pipe and it's plug is different from
the multiplug shown in the pic, but I think i can manage with it!
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pappa
Full Member
VM Diesel 2.5Tdi 90kW
Posts: 259
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again
« Reply #6 on: Aug 5th, 2007, 6:41am » |
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Hi everyone!
Have had a huge pile of things to sort out with my engine swap project. I'm
going to need a pile of parts in the future for it, so anyone 2.3 DOHC under
breaking/broken stay alert.
Outstanding problem is the PATS giving 1:6 error - Faulty connection between
PATS and ECU it says. Anyone have had this?
Then a question about the front stabilizer bar, could some take a peak under
the car with a camera, I suspect they're different in 24V and in 16V. Yesterday
started putting the struts back in and the stabilizer bar ends were pointing
upwards, not downwards like they used to 
It seems to me that the DOHC engine front comes further down than the
24V. Gosh... I'm so close, I'm so close! And I'm so much in trouble, we need
two cars or else... (that's my wife, the or else part  )
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Simmo
Administrator
I'm an OAP !
Posts: 5508
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again
« Reply #7 on: Aug 5th, 2007, 6:52am » |
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Does THIS page help?. Try THIS one and the links on the left hand side as well.
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pappa
Full Member
VM Diesel 2.5Tdi 90kW
Posts: 259
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again
« Reply #8 on: Aug 5th, 2007, 11:03am » |
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Nope, not really, thanks Simmo.
I've searched through the site and I also have a Ford T.I.S. CD but did not
manage to see how it is in the 16V vs 24V.
I removed the stabilizer bar and will get adaptors made for me in order to
get it down about 2cm.
Thanks for your time Simmo.
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pat
Full Member
Rover 75. Rover 620. Ford P100 Pickup.
Posts: 545
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again
« Reply #9 on: Aug 5th, 2007, 7:44pm » |
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Hi Pappa.
Sorry to hear you have problems.
I'm afraid I am offering only sympathy and thanks.
I was contemplating dropping our 2.9's engine into the 2.0 estate which would give me the perfect(well almost!) car. I would have been lost with the problems you have had and have now decided to leave well alone.
Good luck. Hope you get it sorted. I'm sure you will.
Pat
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pappa
Full Member
VM Diesel 2.5Tdi 90kW
Posts: 259
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again
« Reply #10 on: Aug 6th, 2007, 5:12am » |
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Thanks for your sympathy Pat!
Oh well, it's only technology so it can be sorted out, no
doubt of that. It's just taking a bit too long to finish, we
really need two cars in our household and that's what's
putting pressure on the project.
Having done this once, the second one is much easier, but
it is a lot of work. Swapping between different engine types
needs good preparation and it's just not the engine that has
to be changed, there's more work to it.
I will write a full report on my case, I have taken quite a
lot of pictures while I've been at it. I also have been
doing some more work at the same go, like changing the
drivers side front wheel bearing - bloody **** should
have taken it to somewhere! Those bearing parts are all
rusted and the bearing itself won't come out without a
hydraulic press. Well I knew it wouldn't be easy, but it
did make such a bad noise already that it had to be done.
All these little things and missing parts have taken a lot
of time. I had to re-create the coolant hoses, new ones
would have taken a week to come by and would have
costed a small fortune. The exhaust pipe - would have
costed a fortune, so I had to do it myself etc...
The PATS, even though anticipated, was the greatest
disappointment (In a way - it's working exactly as it
should!). I was sure that the ECU that I had was
programmed to work without the PATS, because it was
meant to be put into a car without an immobiliser. Maybe
that's the problem. But I will take the car to the local Ford,
once I get bearing sorted and the stabilizer bar sorted and
a trailer, and a car with a towing hook  borrowed...
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Kjetil S
Senior Member
2001 BMW 520iat
Posts: 1419
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again
« Reply #11 on: Aug 6th, 2007, 8:37am » |
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I was thinking.. Have you tried hooking up some temporary wires, completely bypassing the PATS unit? I tried looking at the schematics, but they weren't too descriptive of the PATS, so except for the signal wire to the starter, I'm not sure what's needed though.
You probably have this link already
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pappa
Full Member
VM Diesel 2.5Tdi 90kW
Posts: 259
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again
« Reply #12 on: Aug 6th, 2007, 9:12am » |
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Nope Kjetil, I did not have that link so thank you.
I've always hated looking at wiring diagrams. Now I reckon
I must start loving for the future
There is an orange box attached on side of the PATS has
anyone any idea what it is? It's connector looks very
much the same as does the diagram in there:
http://www.granada-and-scorpio-online.com/forums/showthread.php?s=74e162 2f76085e75d39073cce16b274d&threadid=69
Search for immobiliser and you'll find the diagram. I tried
that without the PATS in the car, but it was a no go anyway.
Ford says it needs a new key programming and if that's
not going work, it may need new keys and them programmed... The PATS is signalling 1:6 - faulty connection between PATS & ECU - so I'm wondering
why the key programming schema first?
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again
« Reply #13 on: Aug 6th, 2007, 9:33am » |
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Hi. Maybe if you could get a matching ECU and PATS module from a 2.3 from the UK this would solve the issue?
If the ECU you got was tuned for the Volga, perhaps the Ford one would be better suited to the Scorpio?
The Volga is a heavy lump, perhaps the ECU is different because it's tuned for max economy over performance or something?
Sorry if I'm missing something 
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pappa
Full Member
VM Diesel 2.5Tdi 90kW
Posts: 259
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again
« Reply #14 on: Aug 6th, 2007, 9:40am » |
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on Aug 6th, 2007, 9:33am, TiberiuS wrote:| Hi. Maybe if you could get a matching ECU and PATS module from a 2.3 from the UK this would solve the issue? |
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That's an idea yes. I need many other things as well, but
I'll take the Ford route here first. I like these guys a my
local Ford, they're very friendly and flexible. Have actually
won many prizes in the Ford internal customer service
competions. It really shows.
If I only had the FDS2000/WDS2000 or like... mmm.... some
day, I will get one!
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Kjetil S
Senior Member
2001 BMW 520iat
Posts: 1419
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again
« Reply #15 on: Aug 6th, 2007, 12:18pm » |
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My theory for the time being is that your car was originally wired to use the PATS (ignition, and possibly fuel pump and injectors connected via PATS system) and your new 2.3 doesn't have the PATS link in the ECU, so now your PATS system throws a fit. I would guess rewiring to bypass your PATS module will solve the problem. Then again, swapping for a PATS + ECU pair from another 2.3 may prove easier and should make life more difficult for car thieves.
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pappa
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VM Diesel 2.5Tdi 90kW
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again
« Reply #16 on: Aug 6th, 2007, 12:44pm » |
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Kjetil, thanks for that.
I agree with your theory and would rather re-wire the system to go without PATS. It is a time consuming task though and I will hear what Ford has to say prior I start making decisions on it.
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pappa
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VM Diesel 2.5Tdi 90kW
Posts: 259
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again
« Reply #17 on: Aug 7th, 2007, 8:05pm » |
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WELL the Ford said: "I need a set of new keys programmed into the car... bring it over
here and we'll do that. If it fails, then you may need some new blank keys to be programmed
into it... "
I'm pretty sure that's not right, so i'm putting my money on KIMI now. Kimi where are you! 
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pappa
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - Waiting for KI
« Reply #18 on: Aug 8th, 2007, 12:53pm » |
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Have continued my crusade on the Scorps and I can hear the fuel injectors activate
when I turn on the ignition
I just kind of started going through evertyhing again, while waiting Kimi to return
to this site and came a across a blown fuse F43, then wiggled the Fuel Injection
relay - srrrrr! - activated! But it's still not turning on the key. Tried it with a screwdriver
directly between the starter motor solenoid and power, the starter turns it just right
but still stays dead. I've removed PATS from it.
Waiting KIMI's invention - anxiously - and continuing eliminating other obvious
things...
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pappa
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VM Diesel 2.5Tdi 90kW
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Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - Waiting for KI
« Reply #19 on: Aug 8th, 2007, 1:43pm » |
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Interesting... Opened the hatch over the spark plugs, drew out No. one plug, put a spare spark plug into and then used the screwdriver to power up the starter and turn the
engine. Nice beautyfull spark! But it's a non starter anyway. Played with trunk inertia swicth for a while, it works. At least it pops up when you hit it and goes down when you
press the button.
Anyone got an idea on what's the relay inseide the armrest console? A yellow one,
ticks on once you turn the key to Acc I position, ticks again when you try to start.
I can hear a zzrrrrrrr! from the engine when I turn on the ignition, it lasts a few
seconds then stops. This started today after I had wiggled the Fuel pump relay.
But shouldn't the fuel pump sing along all the time when the ignition is on? I can't
hear that. Isn't that in the tank? So putting my ear against the tank, I should hear
it? The fuses seem all to be fine in aux & main box.
I should be working, not here... having this monologue... I'm going grazy soon...
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