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Topic: i need help with my 24v cossie (Read 1632 times) |
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jj7701
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i need help with my 24v cossie
« on: Sep 1st, 2007, 2:56pm » |
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Hello everyone i am new to scorpios i got myself a 24v cosworth ultima running on lpg ( it actually once belonged to steve congrave from this site) the car was in really good condition and run well all but a small leak from a water pipe the ackward one that runs through the engine block. So i took on the task of replaceing the pipe but i opened a can of worms the loom between the engine was completely cracked and brittle, i did my best to re insulate the wires with heat shrink tube and replaced the coolant pipe.
Trouble is now i put it all back together and the car isnt running well atall firstly i had a air leak i think i have fixed that but now the car wont idle or run well atall, i have had this car three weeks and it aint got out the garage yet. is there anyone out there that can help me
cheers guys james
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #1 on: Sep 1st, 2007, 3:05pm » |
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Hi there, go back over everything you have done and check it again, must be something you have moved / dislodged or not replaced correctly
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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jj7701
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #2 on: Sep 1st, 2007, 4:30pm » |
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Ok i will strip it all back down and start again tomorrow  i had to leave it today cos it was giving me the hump
Just one thing i did change i put the vacum supply for the fuel pressure regulator back to its origanal position it had been moved to come from where the two pleniums are joined.
Also if any one could help me before i strip it all back is there anywhere onm this site which shows exactaly which electrical plug goes to which injector i am wondering if i have got them mixed up
cheers guys
james
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mike
Junior Member
1996 Cosworth
Posts: 63
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #3 on: Sep 1st, 2007, 9:42pm » |
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Hi James,
You can identify the injector plugs by their wiring:
injector #1: purple /white and black/white
injector #2: purple/yellow and black/yellow
injector #3: purple/blue and black/blue
injector #4: purple and black/orange
injector #5: purple/black and black/green
injector #6: purple/orange and black/red
All the purple/* wires are live (12V from fuse 37) when ignition is on.
The black/* wires are connected to the ECU via one of the square connectors on the RHS in the engine bay.
The cylinders are numbered front to back: 1-2-3 on starboard 4-5-6 on port.
Hope this helps!
Mike
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jj7701
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #4 on: Sep 2nd, 2007, 2:24pm » |
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Thanks for your help so far guys, so i take the plenium off the car again today and check the plugs on the injectors and i believe them to be in the correct place's.put every thing back together and start her up and i am still getting much the same problem the car starts it will rev quite high straight away then die. so i unplugged the idle control sensor and it seemed to help a little the revs went up a little but was alot more stable.
The wires to all my connector plugs are completely gone the throttle sensor wires are knackerd, ive tried repairing them but i think there gone to far, im thinking this is my main problem or at least until i can prove the electrics are ok i cant really look else where(the car was running well untill i disturbed everything when changing the coolant pipe) Is there anyway of testing the ohm rating of the sensors and wires with a multimeter from the main plug on the ecu ( i have done this on my 2wd sapphire cosworth and its really good for fault finding)
Is the only option to replace the loom, are they still avalible?
Does the engine have to come out to replace the loom?
i really feel i am running out of ideas and i havnt even got round to testing if it still works on lpg 
james
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tintin
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #5 on: Sep 3rd, 2007, 1:09pm » |
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quick check, make sure you put the idle control valve back on the right way round. it fits both ways round, when a garage did my FPR valve, it put it on back to front. caused lots of strange idle problems. took a certain scottish stockpiler to find that one !!
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'95 Cosworth Ultima
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Highlander
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #6 on: Sep 3rd, 2007, 7:21pm » |
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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john.n
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I love my cossie
Posts: 721
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #7 on: Sep 5th, 2007, 6:11am » |
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Dont forget car may be in limp mode and need to be run/driven for a while in order for it to re-learn. john.n
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jj7701
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #8 on: Sep 6th, 2007, 12:50pm » |
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thanks for your help guys i am going to have a look at it tonight and see what happens but if i do need a new loom how difficult are they to fit does the gearbox have to come out
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jj7701
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #9 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 1:39pm » |
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Ok i think i give up with this car, anyone have any idea how much a non runner spares/ repair 24v cossie with lpg is worth its done around 143k
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Highlander
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #10 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 1:55pm » |
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break it up, sell the lpg seperately
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Highlander
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #11 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 9:24am » |
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in fact i might be interested in it myself 
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Matt
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Manual'd and a 4.0 in the making
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #12 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 11:37am » |
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did you take the head off to do the water pipe? mite not be timed right
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FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham
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jj7701
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #13 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 4:52pm » |
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no i never took the head off i managed to get the pipe on without removing the head, Ok ive been at the car again today cos i really don't like things to beat me and i know there isnt much wrong with the car and its a really nice car when it works . ok i am now sure its electrical, and i even think it could be the injector order ie i have my plugs mixed up at the injectors, i checked out to what mike sent earlier in this thread and the colours dont really make sence to my car so i am now thinking perhaps they had been replaced in the passed with diffrent colours, so if thats the case i really need to double check the wires from where the loom starts is this possible
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Dave
Senior Member
Tourmallard 24v (ex-owner)
Posts: 1984
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #14 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 5:40pm » |
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Do check the wiring to the crank sensor as any water leak will travel down that route. Also pay careful attention to the wiring to the large temperature sensor as this tells the ECU how warm the engine is and could cause running problems if the wiring has been affected.
I had this water leak and eventually the antifreeze caused a few wiring problems
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Life after the Scorpio ain't easy..
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mike
Junior Member
1996 Cosworth
Posts: 63
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #16 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 9:29pm » |
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Sorry I could'nt give you this information earlier, but I was away from my notes for a few days (long enough for my steering rack to develop a leak  but that's another story...).
Starboard in the engine compartment are two square connectors with a 10mm bolt on top. In the literature the front one is refered to as C113 and the back one as C110. These two connectors are where ALL the engine and transmission wiring originates. To remove the connectors,just loosen the bolts (they stay attached to the connectors) and pull upwards.
As I have had my share of electrical problems I spent some time trying to figure out what goes where. The pins are numbered so here goes:
CONNECTOR C110:
3 injector 6
4 injector 2
5 idle speed control valve (ISCV)
8 throttle position sensor (TPS) pin2
10 ignition coil
12 injector 5
14 air charge temp sensor (ACT, RHS of inlet manifold)
15 crankshaft position sensor
16 ignition coil
19 coolant temp sensor (the one which controls instrument panel reading)
20 crankshaft position sensor
22 ignition coil
25 oil pressure switch
26 camshaft position sensor
27 ground for engine coolant temp sensor, air charge temp sensor, throttle position sensor etc.
28 ignition coil+coil capacitor(on side of coil)
30 injector 4
31 camshaft speed sensor
32 TPS pin 1
33 engine coolant temp sensor (ECT the one with 2 wire connector)
36 injector 3
37 injector 1
38 live connection to all injectors and to idle speed control valve
Notes:
Individual injector resistance (as measured between 38 and each of 3,4,12,30,36,37) should be about 15 ohm.
Idle speed control valve resistance (between 38 and 5) should be about 250 ohm.
On to CONNECTOR 113:
2 transmission range sensor?? (not sure)
4 vehicle speed sensor (VSS)
5 rear O2 sensor LHS (port)
8 vehicle speed sensor (VSS)
10 live for transmission range sensor
13 ??
14 rear O2 sensor LHS (port)
15 rear O2 sensor LHS (port)
16 rear O2 sensor RHS (starboard)
17 transmission speed sensor
19 rear O2 sensor RHS (starboard)
20 rear O2 sensor RHS (starboard)
25 transmission oil temp sensor
26 ??
27 transmission range sensor
28 shift solenoid 4
30 EPC solenoid (main pressure)
31 shift solenoid 1
32 shift solenoid 2
33 Torque converter clutch (TCC) solenoid
36 transmission speed sensor
37 transmission range sensor
38 shift solenoid 3
Llet me know if you find errors.
Hope this helps.
Keep the spirit high!
Mike
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jj7701
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #17 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 1:53am » |
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thanks so much for the info guys i will be checking it out tomorrow i will let you know how it goes
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jj7701
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #18 on: Sep 13th, 2007, 8:11pm » |
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i have now checked the wireing to the injectors etc. and all seems to be ok and they are in the correct order.
The only other thing i have changed is the vacum pipe on the fuel pressure regulator it was connected to the regulator from the bottem of the plenium and not the usual place at the top of the plenium (not sure if this is making sence now)
other than this i am really stuck as to what is the problem.
the symtoms at the moment are: the car starts and the engine runs then will die unless i put my foot on the accelerator then it will rev high but not with any control.
it will also make a pinking noise ( think this is the term used)
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jj7701
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Re: i need help with my 24v cossie
« Reply #19 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 6:07pm » |
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it seems if i remove the idle valve plug the car runs alot better does anyone know what this could mean? ?
james 
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