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Topic: Lock (and alarm?) problems (Read 1390 times) |
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DavidBE
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1998 Ghia X 2.9 24V Auto Estate
Posts: 135
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Lock (and alarm?) problems
« on: Oct 29th, 2007, 12:26pm » |
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Hi,
Just over a week ago I bought a P-Reg 2.3 Ultima Auto. Unfortunately there's some problems with some of the lock switches - and, I think, the alarm - which I didn't understand at the time, not having had a Scorpio before to know exactly what was supposed to do what. Doesn't stop me using the car, but I'd like to fix this if possible.
As I currently understand things (which may not be right) after reading the Owner's manual and info on this site, the Passenger door lock is operating correctly, but the driver door lock isn't, and nor is the boot lock.
The passenger door lock:
reliably locks and unlocks all four doors, the fuel filler flap and the boot.
Does the global opening and closing of the sunroof and windows.
On locking, the courtesy lishts go out, and the little alarm LED over the dashboard starts flashing about once every two seconds.
On unlocking, the alarm LED stops flashing and goes out.
That's all correct, isn't it?
By contrast, the driver door lock:
Reliably locks and unlocks all four doors, and the fuel filler flap.
It locks but will not unlock the boot.
It does not do the global opening and closing of the windows and sunroof.
On locking, the courtesy lights stay on until they go out on the timer. If the alarm LED was off before locking, it stays off.
On unlocking, if the alarm LED was on (flashing) it stays on until I start the car, and on stopping the car it will start flashing again.
Does what works and what doesn't on the drivers door lock indicate where the problem is to anybody?
As for the boot lock, it locks and locks with the passenger door lock, and locks but doesn't unlock with the driver door lock. So basically it works with the central locking. But it does NOT work with the key. The key turns to maybe 75 degrees clockwise, but doesn't release the lock. I presume the key operates the boot lock mechanically, not electrically ... right? In which case, I'm guessing that the boot lock was changed, but the new lock never got adjusted to fit the keys, and would need one of those lock kits with the discs in to change it to fit the keys. Does that sound correct?
The other related thing, then, that's also puzzling me is that if the alrm is on (LED flashing) because I locked the passenger door, but I then unlock the driver door and get in, so the LED is still flashing ... shouldn't the alarm go off? I've now found the horn isn't working (I never use the horn, so didn't think to check it before), but does the alram do anything other than sound the horn (like flash the lights)? If not, then I guess the alarm maybe is working and is going off, but producing no effect because of the disabled horn. If it should also flash the lights etc, what could be wrong? (The PATS is working, as far as I can tell).
Thanks for any help/advice.
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DavidBE
Full Member
1998 Ghia X 2.9 24V Auto Estate
Posts: 135
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #1 on: Oct 29th, 2007, 3:35pm » |
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Ah.
I've just had the interior trim panel off the driver's door.
Comparing what I'm sssing with the pictures in the page on this site about replacing the door lock, it appears a couple of things are missing.
There's no shield over the back of the lock. But also the pictures show some white plastic thing that clips, if I understand this right, round the lock barrel in some fashion, and into which some cables plug. That is completely absent. And there's black plug with a blue inner face and red/yellow, blue/black and red/white wires coming from it just hangning loose, not plugged into anything.
So that white clip thing that fits round the barrel would be a switch that operates all the things not working with my door lock, I suppose. So if I get a replacement and attach it, that might sort that bit out.
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joe-satch
Senior Member
joe satriani is the best guitarist in the world.
Posts: 1161
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #2 on: Oct 29th, 2007, 4:52pm » |
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hello,i would say that your well on the way to solving the problems..i had the same trouble with my mk3 granada...so good luck...regards den.
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Dave
Senior Member
Tourmallard 24v (ex-owner)
Posts: 1984
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #3 on: Oct 29th, 2007, 5:57pm » |
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Spot on David, that large plastic thing that does round the locks is indeed necessary. I had a problem like that once (sticking plastic thing rather than missing) and the LED continued to flash until the engine started. Likewise the interior lights stayed on until the timer knocked them out.
At least the drivers lock works! Sounds like it may have been repaired/replaced in the past hence the lack of shield 
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Snoopy
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #4 on: Oct 29th, 2007, 7:05pm » |
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The alarm horn is hidden behind the batttery .. It does NOT use the same horn as is required for the RTA warning instrument !
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DavidBE
Full Member
1998 Ghia X 2.9 24V Auto Estate
Posts: 135
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #5 on: Oct 29th, 2007, 7:29pm » |
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on Oct 29th, 2007, 7:05pm, Snoopy wrote:The alarm horn is hidden behind the batttery .. It does NOT use the same horn as is required for the RTA warning instrument !
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Ah. So .... when the LED is flashing and I unlock the drivers door and open it with the LED still flashing, the alrm should go off then?
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DavidBE
Full Member
1998 Ghia X 2.9 24V Auto Estate
Posts: 135
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #6 on: Nov 2nd, 2007, 6:16pm » |
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I don't suppose anyone has a close-up picture of the switch fitting round the barrel of the door lock, by any chance?
I've got the new switch, and tried to fit it today. But the problem is that as there wasn't one there before, I haven't seen how it should fit; and trying today it wasn't at all obvious exactly how it should sit round the barrel.
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Simmo
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I'm an OAP !
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #7 on: Nov 2nd, 2007, 7:31pm » |
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Dave, Have aread of THIS page and see if that helps. Click in the photos to enlarge the image.  Mike.
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DavidBE
Full Member
1998 Ghia X 2.9 24V Auto Estate
Posts: 135
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #8 on: Nov 2nd, 2007, 7:41pm » |
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on Nov 2nd, 2007, 7:31pm, Simmo wrote:| Dave, Have aread of THIS page and see if that helps. Click in the photos to enlarge the image. Mike. |
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Thanks, but I'd read that one. Unfortunately he goes from a photo with the lock shield (which is missing on mine) still in position obscuring the switch to two photos with the switch off and dangling from the actuator rod he'd hooked it round out of the way of the barrel. There isn't one with the switch visible and in position.
If I'd been replacing the switch on mine, I'd have noted how the old one fitted. But without having seen one I'm just not clear how it's supposed to fit and engage.
If nobody has a photo, I'll dismantle the passenger door too and see how it fits in that as that one must be there. Just thought I'd ask, as I don't think the passenger door's been taken apart before, and I never seem to be able to take door trim panels off fresh without breaking a few clips and creating a rattle. 
I'm not asking anyone to take their door apart and take a photo specially for me. Just thought I'd ask, though, in case anyone knows they took a photo of this at some point and has it handy.
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Dave
Senior Member
Tourmallard 24v (ex-owner)
Posts: 1984
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #9 on: Nov 2nd, 2007, 8:32pm » |
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From memory the switch fits around the lock close up as far as it will go to the door (possibly in between the 2 lugs you can see on the photo), with the plug connection facing downwards in a 6 o'clock position if that helps 
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DavidBE
Full Member
1998 Ghia X 2.9 24V Auto Estate
Posts: 135
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #10 on: Nov 2nd, 2007, 8:39pm » |
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Right - thanks.
Presumably the black bit on the switch should be in its central position?
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DavidBE
Full Member
1998 Ghia X 2.9 24V Auto Estate
Posts: 135
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #12 on: Nov 2nd, 2007, 9:03pm » |
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Cheers.  I think I was trying to fit it too far out earlier. I'll see if I can have another go tomorrow.
(Oh for a garage. I have to park on the street outside my house, and if I start dismantling the door out there now by torch light, I think somebody might call the police!)
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Dave
Senior Member
Tourmallard 24v (ex-owner)
Posts: 1984
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #13 on: Nov 2nd, 2007, 9:06pm » |
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Good luck with it
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pete from Hull
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Non Scorpio at the moment, but still interested...
Posts: 1365
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #14 on: Nov 3rd, 2007, 10:40am » |
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on Nov 2nd, 2007, 9:03pm, DavidBE wrote:| I think somebody might call the police!) |
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They might be able to recomend a local (Expert) hoody who could do the job for you.... 
Pete
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DavidBE
Full Member
1998 Ghia X 2.9 24V Auto Estate
Posts: 135
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #15 on: Nov 3rd, 2007, 8:48pm » |
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I'd have thought they'd be rather better at removing locks than installing them ...
BTW, Pete - did you get my IM?
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DavidBE
Full Member
1998 Ghia X 2.9 24V Auto Estate
Posts: 135
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #16 on: Nov 5th, 2007, 3:39pm » |
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That's ... odd.
Have finally got the new switch round the lock barrel in the driver's door.
Previously there wasn't one there at all. In that state, using the key in the lock would: lock or unlock all the doors and the fuel filler cap; lock but not unlock the boot; not turn the alarm on or off (it would stay in whatever state operating the passenger door lock had left it); not do any global opening or closing.
Now, after fitting the switch, it will: lock all the doors, fuel filler cap and boot; turn the alarm on and off; do global closing but not opening; and - and this is the odd bit - unlocking it unlocks the driver's door only, but when you actually open the driver's door then the other doors, the fuel filler cap and the boot unlock.
It's not supposed to do that, is it? Surely it should release all the locks immediately the way the passenger door lock does? Presuming so - anyone got any idea what could be wrong to cause that?
(I suppose I can live with it, though. And I'm not bothered by the lack of global opening, as I can't see myself ever wanting that function. As long as - as now - I have the global closing just to close the driver's window for when I forget to do that before turning the engine off.)
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Dave
Senior Member
Tourmallard 24v (ex-owner)
Posts: 1984
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #17 on: Nov 5th, 2007, 5:39pm » |
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Is the new switch moving freely? Sounds like it may be a sticking it bit 
(Edit for typo)
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DavidBE
Full Member
1998 Ghia X 2.9 24V Auto Estate
Posts: 135
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #18 on: Nov 5th, 2007, 9:16pm » |
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on Nov 5th, 2007, 5:39pm, Dave wrote:Is the new switch moving freely? Sounds like it may be a sticking it bit
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I don't think so.
I'm puzzled as to how this all works. Without the switch, the lock released all the doors; with it it releases just that door until the handle's raised, at which point all the other locks release. If releasing the other locks doesn't need the switch, how does having the switch alter how it behaves? And how can lifting the exterior door handle trigger the release of the other doors?
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Dave
Senior Member
Tourmallard 24v (ex-owner)
Posts: 1984
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Re: Lock (and alarm?) problems
« Reply #19 on: Nov 6th, 2007, 12:07pm » |
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I had a slight issue with a sticky switch when replacing the locks. Sorted itself out but there was a sort of twang when pulling the door handle. It didn't affect the locking though.
If the locks were ok before then maybe something was disturbed and is now catching i.e. the lock rods catching on part of the door workings.
Best have the door card off again and (have a helper if necessary) operate the door handle while watching what happens to the locking mechanism.
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