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Topic: speedo works/works not (Read 1011 times) |
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ghia-cossie
Junior Member
original ford sat-nav :D
Posts: 58
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speedo works/works not
« on: Nov 11th, 2007, 9:44pm » |
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to make al long story of my other topic shorter i desided to make an new threat.
my wiring loom is completly new, vss is tested en ok.
but yesterday my speedo was working, today it isnt, al speed related functions dont work.
is there something in the car that distributes the vss signal or is it just as in the loom itself just spliced up to different modules and the dash?
could be a faulty connection in the bulhead connector but i cleaned that one several times.
greetz
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`95 ash black scorpio cosworth FULL OPTIONS
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Havinga
Newbie
1998 2.9 24v Ultima est, 96 2.0 16v ultima saloon
Posts: 44
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #1 on: Nov 11th, 2007, 10:25pm » |
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Have a look at the pdf's here. http://www.carsoft.ru/avtorepair/sierra_el.html
Ignore the fact it has sierra in the address.
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ghia-cossie
Junior Member
original ford sat-nav :D
Posts: 58
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #2 on: Nov 11th, 2007, 10:55pm » |
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i am so desperate, the drives so great when it works but in this condition it drives me mad, i thought of breaking it and shovel the engine in my sierra.
i cheked al the wiringdiagrams to find the splices of the vss signal, if im right theres 1 at the radio and i instaled an non original one from jvc maybe i shorted a wire.
im sorry for the different topics but i dont know it anymore.
it stops working and suddenly without doing anything to it it works , an day later ik drive it and everything is dead again, but the engine runs perfect and the box shifts smooth, no cruisecontrol no tripcounter.
when i pull of the battery leads, en put it back again the instrument cluster cheks itself so thats a sign it cant be broken.
if there is no vss signal the box should shift rough and thumpy, and the o/d light flashes.
the wiring loom is 100% ok, tomorow i will chek al the connectors, chek the instrument cluster, and al the wires behind the dash.
i cant get it over my hart to break it, poor me.
they call it a hobby, i call it a disseas.
greetz
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Havinga
Newbie
1998 2.9 24v Ultima est, 96 2.0 16v ultima saloon
Posts: 44
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #3 on: Nov 11th, 2007, 11:52pm » |
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you've got a bad connection somewhere, i would start with the vss itself, it's a pain to get at, but if you can take it out and check it's sill got all of it's 21 teeth? then check that the loom from the vss back to the box hasn't chaffed any place, pay attention to where the loom comes close to the shift rod, check it doesn't snag when in drive.
Lastly disconnect the vss input from your radio, press and hold the mileage reset for 5 secs to enter the clockset into diagnostic and cycle through to the speed bit.
more details are on this site somewhere but i've forgotten under which heading.
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Simmo
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I'm an OAP !
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #4 on: Nov 12th, 2007, 9:04am » |
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I think THIS is what you are referring to. 
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ghia-cossie
Junior Member
original ford sat-nav :D
Posts: 58
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #5 on: Nov 12th, 2007, 10:34am » |
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intresting, but is that the reason for other things failing such as the cruise control tripcounter.
wiring loom is completely new and i tested al the connections when it was on the car , it turns out that everything was ok.
greetz
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ghia-cossie
Junior Member
original ford sat-nav :D
Posts: 58
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #6 on: Nov 12th, 2007, 11:23am » |
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just did the instrument test:
the 2 displays showing al digits and pressing the button i scrolled trough the parameters, speed shows nothing when driving all others seems te be fine.
the manual on this site says al lights should light up and the needles must flip, mine doesnt.
i disconnected the battery to reset everything and i will try the car after i had some breakfast.
the radio wiring not contains the vss signal i think its because my car is equiped with a standard stereo type radio , so it cant be wrong out there.
i really begin to hate this car, but still love her and want to make it better 
i also found out that if the speedo is working, the cruise control only works when pushing the RESUME/CANCEL button, ond not with on or of.
greetz
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #7 on: Nov 12th, 2007, 11:28am » |
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There is a VSS signal at the radio because my taxi meter is wired into it for the pulses. My old Scorpio with the old type radio also had the meter wired up in the same way 
Hope this helps
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ghia-cossie
Junior Member
original ford sat-nav :D
Posts: 58
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #8 on: Nov 12th, 2007, 11:42am » |
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according to the wiring diagrams it must be white/green wire, but i cant find it in the radio wiring.
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ghia-cossie
Junior Member
original ford sat-nav :D
Posts: 58
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #9 on: Nov 12th, 2007, 4:22pm » |
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can anyone confirm if this is right:
wires in the loom for vss:
white/blue - vss signal (puls)
black - vss ground
purple - vss power
wires out of the vss itself:
yellow - pulse
black - power
brown - ground
so i have to connect as follow:
purple to black
white/blue to yellow
brown to black
greetz
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Snoopy
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #10 on: Nov 12th, 2007, 6:05pm » |
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The way I understand Fords wiring is that BLACK is always used as earth and NOT a live feed so in your explanation Quote: wires out of the vss itself:
yellow - pulse
black - power
brown - ground |
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I think is wrong but others may have MORE knowledge that me on this one .
I have checked MY copy of the wiring diagrams and BLACK IS ground .
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ghia-cossie
Junior Member
original ford sat-nav :D
Posts: 58
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #11 on: Nov 12th, 2007, 6:39pm » |
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i cheked it with the old loom:
black = ground
white/blue = pulse signal
purple = power
the purple wire goes to the dataconnector of the gearbox and is shared with 3 purple black wires that provide the solenoid power, after the sharing point the wire becomes purple/blue en goed to the bulkhead connector on the left side of the engine ( lhd car)
so indeed this is the right way of connecting the wires:
so the purple wire goes to the black one of the vss
the wite/blue wire goed to the yellow wire of the vss
and the black wire goed to the brown wire of the vss
i am glad that there are people that give me serious tips, forums in holland suck, they always go offtopic and come up with stupid ideas.
thanx alot all of you!!!
greetz
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harry.m1byt
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #12 on: Nov 12th, 2007, 9:17pm » |
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One certain method to check for the pulse would be with an oscilloscope - rather expensive, but there you are.
Another method would be to try a logic probe which is switchable to CMOS input levels. Basically you connect it to a 12v supply and connect the probe tip to the cable in question. Three LED's indicate a positive, a negative - the third flashing (and a tone) if there is a pulsing signal appearing on the wire between certain voltage limits. As indicated this would not be certain to work, as the pulses have to meet a certain criteria.
From memory the criteria being the pulse voltage has to rise above 70% of the supply voltage and fall below 30%. I would guess the VSS signal would almost certainly meet this criteria.
The TTL level setting of the probe is designed for 5v logic levels and may be damaged by the 12v.
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ghia-cossie
Junior Member
original ford sat-nav :D
Posts: 58
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #13 on: Nov 12th, 2007, 10:18pm » |
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vss is ok, tested with leds, and tested the other from the sierra wich does exactly the same as the one from the scorpio so i think its ok.
tomorow i make a bypass cable from the vss directly tot the wires it needs in the bulkhead connector, if its still fail to work its something else and if its working the solution is that bypass.
so i keep you guys updated.
greetz
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ghia-cossie
Junior Member
original ford sat-nav :D
Posts: 58
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #14 on: Nov 13th, 2007, 2:48pm » |
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i thought i solved the problem, but i didnt.
made a bypass with the vss wires, hooked it up in the connectors, and speedo works, so i went for a drive.
cruise control worked but only by pressing + it turns on and i could only control it by pressing + and -, turning it op worked with the on/of buttons.
speedo still worked during the drive but o/d flashes, so i turned of the car and started it again, and what happend, no speedo no cruise etc. etc. car sometimes shifts up and in eco it revs till 6000 and finaly shifts, shifts are not rough.
cheked the pulse wire from the eec and it has a constant ground.
so if someone has an idea share it with me because breaking the car is my only way out at this moment.
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Snoopy
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #15 on: Nov 13th, 2007, 3:57pm » |
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The cruise control is supposed to work the way you state .... press the white button toturn it ON and then use the + to set and the - button to reduce speed ... the = button resumes AFTER pressing the brake or clutch.... it does seem that the wiring is at fault and I would have thought the small loom from the gearbox is the one that needs to be replaced/repaired .
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ghia-cossie
Junior Member
original ford sat-nav :D
Posts: 58
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #16 on: Nov 13th, 2007, 4:14pm » |
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gearbox loom is new, and tested with an original one and wired up correctly.
but is it right that the blue/white wire in de c113 bulkhead connector gives a constant ground with key on
and the connectors fro mthe engine/gearbox removed.
i have now al the dashboard parts out to look after the wiring there, going to disconect the cruise module ect, to find the problem.
with another loom or a bypass it still refuses to work.
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Snoopy
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #17 on: Nov 13th, 2007, 7:29pm » |
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IS the relay faulty?
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ghia-cossie
Junior Member
original ford sat-nav :D
Posts: 58
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #18 on: Nov 13th, 2007, 9:38pm » |
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wich relay and where to find, i think you mean the relay under the dash at the passengers side of the car? in the glove compartiment.
is that a common fault?, at least it makes sense that this could be the problem.
i never had a problem like this, not even with more complicated car electronics.
a speedo just works or not works, this is working and working not and without doing anything to it it works after not working.
so i conclude that the wiring is ok cause it works as it is now, but fails and working again, can you guys get it , i dont.
greetz
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Snoopy
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Re: speedo works/works not
« Reply #19 on: Nov 14th, 2007, 7:42am » |
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Going back to the start.
I know you state the VSS "checks " out OK but as that is the one part of this equation which is an unknown quantity. You appear to have an intermitant fault . Perhaps you could obtain a known second hand one .
Particularilly as you have had your speed working ( if only for a short time ) . I would go back to basiscs and start there . The relay to look for is NO 37 behind the glove box a Green one which is on the speed conrtrol circuit .
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