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Topic: Slow warm up ? (Read 3302 times) |
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Scorpio_Mike
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Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 & 2.8 Sierra XR4i 4x4
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Slow warm up ?
« on: Dec 20th, 2007, 3:17pm » |
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Couple of issues have come up since the cold snap started :
Water temp guage stays down at the bottom unless in heavy traffic when it moves up to the middle where it should be but quickly goes back down when on the open road. Car seems slow to warm up although when you have been going about 20 miles or so air from the dash outlets is pretty warm.
A/C seems a bit slow to get warm air out - does it need topping up ?
Heated front screen does not seem to work - checked both fuses and found them OK - where to look next ?
TIA
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Snoopy
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #1 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 3:53pm » |
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1. Slow Warm up... Suggest you change the thermostat, sounds like its OPEN all the time
2. Heated front screen .. Check the relay 18 in the aux fuse box is working and aslo check the earth connections either side of the screen
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Kjetil S
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2001 BMW 520iat
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #2 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 3:56pm » |
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Cold warm up is probably the thermostat. Try replacing it (doesn't cost much and is quite easy). If I'm not mistaken, the thermostat could cause the A/C to warm up slowly as well.
Don't know about the heated front screen.
Edit: Snoopy beat me to it 
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Scorpio_Mike
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #3 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 8:19pm » |
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Is there another relay in the car I can swap with R18 to test without getting a new one ?
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #4 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 9:15pm » |
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My 2.3 is very slow to warm up if I go straight onto the main road, warms up quicker with aircon off which I assume is because the fan isn't running.
It's not the stat in my case but I suspect with the partly blocked matrix water gets forced past the stat (when I cleared the matrix last year the engine warmed up quicker).
If I start the journey on slow local roads it warms up fairly quickly.
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harry.m1byt
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #5 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 10:35pm » |
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An easy method to test the stat is....
Starting with the engine cold, let it tickover whilst constantly keeping a hand on the top hose. If the top hose gradually warms up, then the stat is stuck open. What should happen is the hose should quite suddenly become warm over a matter of a few seconds. Another way to test it in cold damp conditions is to spray the rad with cold water and watch for the mist start to rise as the hot water suddenly gets into the radiator as the sat opens. You might see this mist rise up anyway in cold damp weather, if moisture has managed to condens on the rad.
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #6 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 10:57pm » |
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I agree with Harry, that's how mine worked with a new stat and a clear matrix (checked with OBD and didn't pass water till up to temp) but as the matrix has started to block it now seeps by the stat & the hose to the rad warms up.
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Snoopy
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #7 on: Dec 21st, 2007, 8:00am » |
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Re the relay ... try one the one off the heated REAR screen as a stop gap but I think it has a different power rating ...
RELAY 4
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #8 on: Dec 21st, 2007, 5:51pm » |
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as long as the temp gauge is within the normal operating range and isnt flickering jumping about etc then its doing exactly what it should do i.e. sat in traffic temp goes up (but not into the red), open road cold weather= cold air passing through rad and around engine the temp will and should lower, its normal.
i believe the air con will not blow out hot air until the engine has reached a certain temp.
as for the heated front screen i dont have one, but i think many members have problems normally with one side working only...
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Kjetil S
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2001 BMW 520iat
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #9 on: Dec 21st, 2007, 10:22pm » |
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If the thermostat is working properly, then it won't read any differently if it's sat in traffic or running on the open road. If it does, then it's 99% certain that it's broken and jammed open. Mine has done it on two occasions, and it was a jammed thermostat both times.
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harry.m1byt
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #10 on: Dec 21st, 2007, 10:31pm » |
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on Dec 21st, 2007, 10:22pm, Kjetil S wrote:| If the thermostat is working properly, then it won't read any differently if it's sat in traffic or running on the open road. If it does, then it's 99% certain that it's broken and jammed open. Mine has done it on two occasions, and it was a jammed thermostat both times. |
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Any variation has to be due to either a problem with the guage telling lies, or a problem with the performance of the stat.
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #11 on: Dec 22nd, 2007, 10:41am » |
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disagree totally, its basic physics, the stat will only keep an engine within a 'range'...
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Highlander
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #12 on: Dec 22nd, 2007, 10:50am » |
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Yes it does Taliban but that range should be hardly noticable on the Scorpio
My Scorps hardly move off the same mark, (slightly above the halfway line), once they are warmed up.
The thermostat and the cooling fans keep the temperature within a very narrow range whether sitting in traffic or driving hard. (I can leave mine ticking over for hours on a hot day and it will never climb above half way)
If the gauge is moving about something is definitely wrong.
The poor heating also suggests the stat as the problem, it might actually be missing altogether 
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taliban aka Cheekyboy2
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #13 on: Dec 22nd, 2007, 11:08am » |
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it doesnt matter what the engine is (unless its air cooled of course) or whether its a scorpio, engine temp will vary with given conditions but the stat should keep it within an 'operating range'. we've been through this one before very thoroughly, i cant remember who it was but someone put up a lenghty thread giving details of how the stat works for Harry.....
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Highlander
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #14 on: Dec 22nd, 2007, 11:36am » |
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Yep, we know how it works and yes it does have an operating range agreed BUT the operating range shown on the gauge should not move much at all from the centre if the system is 100%
There should only be a very slight variation which the thermostat and the fans will regulate
If the gauge is at the bottom when the car has reached or should have reached normal operating temperature then there must be a problem, it is NOT normal on the Scorpio.
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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tintin
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #15 on: Dec 22nd, 2007, 5:22pm » |
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yep, my cossie warms up steadily to a smidge over half way, then stays rock steady through motorway and town, never moves.
or at least, it does now the rad and cats are fixed and it isnt overheating
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Kjetil S
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2001 BMW 520iat
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #16 on: Dec 22nd, 2007, 6:29pm » |
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Same with my 16v. I can leave it idle for hours (not that I usually do) or I can take it out on a run in -15C, and it sits still just above half.
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Highlander
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #17 on: Dec 22nd, 2007, 8:04pm » |
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The defence rests
Dodgy/missing thermostat Mike
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Scorpio_Mike
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Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 & 2.8 Sierra XR4i 4x4
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #18 on: Dec 22nd, 2007, 9:41pm » |
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That's what I was thinking, better be careful working on that inlet manifold or I'll be getting the glue out...
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harry.m1byt
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Re: Slow warm up ?
« Reply #19 on: Dec 23rd, 2007, 10:36am » |
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on Dec 22nd, 2007, 10:41am, taliban aka Cheekyboy2 wrote:| disagree totally, its basic physics, the stat will only keep an engine within a 'range'... |
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Why in a range?
The thermostat can vary its opening almost instantly to suit and adjust the temperature of its incoming water. It doesn't have hysterisis.
Once upto temperature and settled, the only time the temperature should vary is if the cooling system is over loaded - as in too much heat being generated for the system to be able to get rid of. Even on the hottest days in the UK, I have never had the cooling fans be triggered to provide that extra cooling, nor have I seen the guage rise or move from its mid position by even the slightest amount. Except for the occasion when I deliberately covered the rad on my Granada after a long hot summer run and left it ticking over for half an hour with no airflow. It then moved north of normal on the guage and managed to trigger one of the two fans to run.
Normal operation on a fully functional system is to slowly rise to the normal position on the guage and stay there rock steady. If it does otherwise it would indicate some problem in the cooling system or the stat.
Assuming there is no fault in the cooling system, it might indicate the stat itself is sticking a little - or perhaps an airlock in the system.
I noticed one exception to this on my last Granada, where from cold the guage would rise up to normal, then as the stat opened I would see it fall back slightly, then continues its progress to normal before staying put there.
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