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Topic: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box. (Read 2236 times) |
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Seans_Dad
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Devizes, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 77
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Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« on: Apr 27th, 2008, 11:02pm » |
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I took the MAF off the car this afternoon, in the hope that a clean up might cure my auto box shifting problem.
Upon inspection, the sensors were not too bad, looked quite clean in fact. I decided to clean it anyway, as per the instructions I found elsewhere on the site, and sprayed in some carb cleaner a little at a time for about ten minutes. I also checked the state of the air filter, it wasn't too bad, but not brilliant, so I will change it during the week.
Once the MAF was re-fitted, I took the car for a run, but no different.
This is what happens:
Start up from cold, and all gear changes are smooth up and down the box, but once warmed up, the up shift from 2nd to 3rd, is a bit jerky, and the revs rise a bit just before the change. But if I ease off the throttle slightly just before the gearchange, it is smooth, as it should be. It only does this between 2nd and 3rd gears, all other gear changes are as they should be, and the overdrive works fine too. I've checked the fluid, and this is a nice red colour as it should be, and not brown and burnt looking.
Is there a gearbox fluid filter fitted to these cars? I wondered if it might be causing a blockage and not letting the fluid flow properly.
I can live with the 'box the way it is, as it's not a violent gearchange, just a slight rise in revs and then a jerk into 3rd gear.
This has got me scratching my head 
Any ideas?? And will it mean spending alot of pound notes? 
Thanks.
Dan.
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'96 Ghia Estate 2.0 16v 5 speed manual
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stevie
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #1 on: Apr 27th, 2008, 11:54pm » |
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i,v got the same problems as you describe i,v cleaned the maf too but same however i feel that the maf could be faulty so i,m gonna change it the box has got a filter in the box sump i had mine changed along with the fluid nd things were fine for a while however as you describe all is well till it heats up then gremlins, good luck
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Octavian_P
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #2 on: Apr 29th, 2008, 9:19pm » |
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My box on the cossie had the same trouble, a slippage between 2 to 3rd gear. I did a partial oil change and added and extra oil cooler. It did run great for some time.
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2.0 16V Ultima|2.3 16V Ghia|2.9 24V Cosworth Ghia
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Seans_Dad
Junior Member
Devizes, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 77
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #3 on: Apr 29th, 2008, 11:35pm » |
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So you reckon an ATF fluid and filter change might cure it? I know with most auto boxes on ANY car, the first sign of trouble, change the fluid and filter, been there and done that with my 2nd Jag, ended up changing the gearbox, and I don't fancy doing that again.......
Thanks for your thoughts, can anybody else possibly shed some light? 
Dan.
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'96 Ghia Estate 2.0 16v 5 speed manual
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
Posts: 2257
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #4 on: Apr 30th, 2008, 12:12pm » |
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Hi. Not sure if this helps but I was looking through the Ford T.I.S the other day, it lists both the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) and another TSS (transmission speed sensor) attached to one of the planetary gearsets inside the box.
Now this is only a stab in the dark but symptoms of the TSS failing are listed as rising revs between shifts and thumps into gear, no idea if you can get at the TSS without stripping the box but it's worth looking at. I'm guessing it should set an error code if the two signals are wrong, not even sure if the Scorp auto can set DTC's?
Regards, Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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solarpanel
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #5 on: Apr 30th, 2008, 6:38pm » |
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could also be the servos in the box being slow to move.
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Seans_Dad
Junior Member
Devizes, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 77
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #6 on: May 5th, 2008, 7:45pm » |
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Driving the car over the weekend, I've found that driving around town, the 'box changes from 2nd to 3rd as it should do, it is only when I press hard on the throttle to accelerate that the revs rise and then it jerks into 3rd from 2nd gear, or if I ease off the throttle just before the change up, there is no jerkiness or rising revs. Could this be the VSS or TSS as TiberiouS mentioned and is it an esy DIY job to do?
I'm still very pleased with my car, and I can live with it as it is, but I don't want to leave it like this for ever in case I do more damage to the 'box.
Thoughts anyone?
Cheers.
Dan.
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Octavian_P
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Posts: 1126
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #7 on: May 5th, 2008, 9:27pm » |
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VSS is easy to change, just jack up the car from the behind, remove heat shield and expose the rear end of the box and the VSS fixed with one screw to it. As for the TSS if i remember correctly it's a sensor in the autobox, so it will be a major job.
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Seans_Dad
Junior Member
Devizes, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 77
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #8 on: May 5th, 2008, 10:04pm » |
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on May 5th, 2008, 9:27pm, Octavian_P wrote:| VSS is easy to change, just jack up the car from the behind, remove heat shield and expose the rear end of the box and the VSS fixed with one screw to it. As for the TSS if i remember correctly it's a sensor in the autobox, so it will be a major job. |
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Thanks, Octavian
The VSS sounds simple enough to do.
When you say the TSS is in the autobox, and that it's a major job, is it accessible by removing the sump pan??
I can tackle most things, having done a complete gearbox change on one of my old Jags a couple of years ago(by myself, not to be recommended) 
What sort of prices do these sensors sell for?
I am right in thinking that Haynes don't do a workshop manual for this car, but is there any other form of workshop manual available to me, whether online or a CD Rom perhaps?
Cheers.
Dan.
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #9 on: May 5th, 2008, 11:46pm » |
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on May 5th, 2008, 9:27pm, Octavian_P wrote:| As for the TSS if i remember correctly it's a sensor in the autobox, so it will be a major job. |
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Yep, apparently the TSS is attached to one of the gearsets so probably deep inside the box. The PDFs are on the main site, have some exploded views...they might show the position of it.
Only mentioned this straight as I read it from the manual, it might be a million miles away from your problem. There's a tonne of info on the main site, service manuals and everything. Go to the 'site map' and you should be able to find quite a bit of info
Dan, sorry for OT but that 'box you changed, was it a ZF 4hp? What was the mileage? I've changed the fluid in mine, TBH though, that box is my least favourite part of the car. I've driven a BMW 540i which I believe has the same box but I don't think it likes the extra torque on the AJ16. It runs and shifts fine but doesn't feel as robust as the turbo hydra in my old XJ12 
Regards, Bruce
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Simmo
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #10 on: May 6th, 2008, 6:44am » |
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This is what Bruce is referring to.
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #11 on: May 6th, 2008, 5:45pm » |
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That's the one. Cheers Mike
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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TRACEYS_LIMO
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #12 on: May 6th, 2008, 8:58pm » |
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before going to lots of trouble taking the box apart, you have not changed the maf only cleaned it. my box started playing up 18 months after having it completley reconditioned, i went back to were it was rebuilt and had it tested no fault was found, replaced the maf the faults went the old maf looked fineafter cleaning but still did not work right. hope this helps
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Pegasus
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24V Cosworth Ultima Born: Sept 97, sold Aug 23
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #13 on: May 6th, 2008, 9:22pm » |
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on Apr 30th, 2008, 12:12pm, TiberiuS wrote: I'm guessing it should set an error code if the two signals are wrong, not even sure if the Scorp auto can set DTC's?
Regards, Bruce. |
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I think it will set codes if it's failing - also looking at the "Enhanced" data can pinpoint problems. A scan could also shed light on the MAF as possible source. So get a scan if you can.
HTH
Paul
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Seans_Dad
Junior Member
Devizes, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 77
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #14 on: May 6th, 2008, 10:06pm » |
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on May 5th, 2008, 11:46pm, TiberiuS wrote:
Dan, sorry for OT but that 'box you changed, was it a ZF 4hp? What was the mileage? I've changed the fluid in mine, TBH though, that box is my least favourite part of the car. I've driven a BMW 540i which I believe has the same box but I don't think it likes the extra torque on the AJ16. It runs and shifts fine but doesn't feel as robust as the turbo hydra in my old XJ12
Regards, Bruce
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Hi bruce, yes, the Jaguar XJ40 3.2 AJ6 was fitted with the ZF 4HP22 autobox, also fitted in the 5 series BMW.
They are actually quite bullet proof, but my problems started at only 73k when I changed the ATF and found shards of plastic in the sump pan and filter I was told it could be the torque converter, but decided to change the lot anyway "just in case". The better autobox was the ZF4 HP24E, which is basically the same box, but electronically controlled, and fitted to the 4 litre XJ's.
Back on topic Thanks all for your advice and links, very helpful indeed. Traceys Limo has really got me thinking about the MAF now, and maybe I should start with the simple tasks first. I will try a known working MAF and see what happens.
Dan.
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TiberiuS
Senior Member
Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #15 on: May 6th, 2008, 11:15pm » |
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Hi Dan. Mine's a 4.0 Sport so has the 4HP24, thanks for the info though
You can unplug the MAF to force the ECU into preset values, see if it improves the shifts. Depends if you can get a cheap working MAF to try
Regards, Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Seans_Dad
Junior Member
Devizes, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 77
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #16 on: May 7th, 2008, 10:41pm » |
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on May 6th, 2008, 11:15pm, TiberiuS wrote:Hi Dan. Mine's a 4.0 Sport so has the 4HP24, thanks for the info though
You can unplug the MAF to force the ECU into preset values, see if it improves the shifts. Depends if you can get a cheap working MAF to try
Regards, Bruce. |
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Hi Bruce.
Can I do that then??  Leave the MAF unplugged? Would it not cause damage to the ECU? I will try it if you think it might work, and I'll let you know.
Dan.
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #17 on: May 7th, 2008, 10:46pm » |
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Hi Dan. Nope, no probs, might make the car run/idle a bit lumpy though, but won't hurt anything
Bruce.
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Bruce - '07 Jaguar XKR coupe, '95 Jaguar XJ Sport 4.0, '82 Ford Capri 2.0 Ghia, '15 Honda Civic (sloooooww..)
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Seans_Dad
Junior Member
Devizes, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 77
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #18 on: May 7th, 2008, 10:54pm » |
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Ok Bruce, I trust you!! I'll give it a try.
Dan.
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Seans_Dad
Junior Member
Devizes, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 77
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Re: Cleaned MAF but no change in 'box.
« Reply #19 on: May 11th, 2008, 5:04pm » |
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This afternoon, I disconnected the MAF, as per Bruce's recommendation, to see what difference it made to the 2nd/3rd gear change.
Well, nothing really, the revs still rose slightly before changing to 3rd, but this only happens when foot is hard on the throttle(NOT kickdown). there is no "surging or rising revs when driving at slow speeds, or "coasting", and when braking to a stop from top gear, the gearbox is smooth.
Bruce, you said the engine would run a bit lumpy on tickover etc, but it didn't, it was still running smoothly.
From this I have come up with two possible causes:
1) The MAF fitted is faulty and needs replacing
2) There is nothing wrong with the MAF and my problem is elsewhere, ie the VSS or TSS.
Perhaps I should next try a "known working" MAF, and then see what happens.
Any ideas?
Cheers,
Dan.
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