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Topic: ABS and traction control lights came on! (Read 17524 times) |
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #40 on: Jun 28th, 2009, 12:42am » |
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Yes, does sound typical of the early stages of the solder joints failing on the motor pins in the ABS controller.
You can test one of the motor pins, but not very conclusive with an intermittent fault although sometimes you can get it to make & break by waggling the round pin quite firmly with the meter probe.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Ivan Pevnitsky
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Scorpio Ghia '96, 2.3, Auto
Posts: 172
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #41 on: Jun 29th, 2009, 2:29pm » |
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It seems some of sensors doesn't work properly. Because there're situations when i smoothly press break pedal ABS works (susually after such situaion the lamp comes on). The lamp is on until I restrt the car and drive several hundred meters.
I supposse it can be a dirt on RF sensor (sierra's), because it have unusual cap (seems to be a hand made by previous owner)
Look at it (click on the picture if you need higher resolution  )
It have a gap for seensor, because it fits in a free area around the ABS rackwheel. I think the dirt gets there after several kilometers (we have dirty roads here)
The original one from LF wheel:
And here the sensors
Right Fornt
Left front
I sprayed both with WD40 (it's hard to get there), but i can't say it solved the problem
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wojtekor
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #42 on: Jun 29th, 2009, 5:36pm » |
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on Jun 29th, 2009, 2:29pm, Ivan Pevnitsky wrote:It seems some of sensors doesn't work properly. Because there're situations when i smoothly press break pedal ABS works (susually after such situaion the lamp comes on). The lamp is on until I restrt the car and drive several hundred meters.
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This is a typical ABS module failure syndrome. At some point the light just won't come off.
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Ivan Pevnitsky
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Scorpio Ghia '96, 2.3, Auto
Posts: 172
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #43 on: Jun 29th, 2009, 6:10pm » |
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Anyway, the failure is caused by something. And this something might be fixed 
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #44 on: Jun 29th, 2009, 6:37pm » |
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Looks like the right sensor needs cleaning between the two parts that stick out from the face.
Try something like brass wire to scrape it away.
Chances are it's magnetic particles and best if you can blow it away with an airline or pump.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Ivan Pevnitsky
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Scorpio Ghia '96, 2.3, Auto
Posts: 172
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #45 on: Jun 30th, 2009, 12:01pm » |
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Sure, but once cleaned it will be dirty again because of the bad cap (see first picture)
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #46 on: Jun 30th, 2009, 12:30pm » |
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It’s magnetic particles that are the main problem rather than dirt.
Can’t see a lot of difference with the caps, if anything the Sierra one has the potential to be better as it’s fixed to the carrier. Seal around the cutaway for the sensor, more importantly you need to be sure water can drain out.
The Scorpio one revolves with the hub & therefore has to have a clearance around it so it doesn’t rub on the carrier. I assume it relies on centrifugal force to throw the water/dirt off.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Ivan Pevnitsky
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Scorpio Ghia '96, 2.3, Auto
Posts: 172
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #47 on: Jun 30th, 2009, 1:00pm » |
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Under the dirt i mean mostly the rusty dust.
The cap on RF: it's not the Sierra's cap. I don't know where this cap has been taken from. (well, it really could be the sierra's, ha-ha)
The problem #1 with RF cap is the hole. When the cap is fitted in, there's a valuable hole left where some sh..t from the road can easilly get into.
Problem #2 with RF cap - there're scratches on the internal side of the cap (you can see it on high-res picture) - I suppose because of the ABS ring scratches it when spinning.
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Ivan Pevnitsky
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Scorpio Ghia '96, 2.3, Auto
Posts: 172
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #48 on: Jun 30th, 2009, 1:21pm » |
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What I want to do further is to measure signals from sensor when driving. I have a 2-channel USB oscilloscope, which has a capability of recording. So I can check if there're some signal/amplitude losses on one of the sensors.
There's a little problem here: I cannot determine the moment when things go bad.
When sensors are connected to ABS I can determine the moment by appearing ABS light or by working ABS when it's not needed. If I connect the scope, I'll have to diconnect sensors from ABS, so the light will be always ON. I can't drive looking st the laptop on passenger's seat and constantly checking the signal difference 
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Ivan Pevnitsky
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Scorpio Ghia '96, 2.3, Auto
Posts: 172
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #49 on: Jul 6th, 2009, 8:51pm » |
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Today measured the gaps:
LF - 0.65 mm (original)
RF - 0.95-1mm (1.5 mm milled off sierra's). But I don't think 0.3 mm makes big difference here. Will try to find a way of cleaning the ring's nest with petorl and high pressure air!
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wojtekor
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #50 on: Jul 6th, 2009, 9:15pm » |
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I'm telling you it's the abs module that is failing...
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NiceMan
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I am Real NiceMan.
 
Posts: 131
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #51 on: Jul 6th, 2009, 10:07pm » |
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Yes... its normal at boc fail.... i change my cossy boc one time before allready....
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Ivan Pevnitsky
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Scorpio Ghia '96, 2.3, Auto
Posts: 172
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #52 on: Jul 6th, 2009, 11:04pm » |
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ohh. If only I could read the codes!
But what fails in ABS module? motor, processor, solenoids... what?
PS: and what is boc
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wojtekor
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #53 on: Jul 6th, 2009, 11:15pm » |
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the module itself... it's pretty much unfixable and you can only replace it. it's always worth to replace the abs pump with it...
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NiceMan
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I am Real NiceMan.
Posts: 131
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #54 on: Jul 7th, 2009, 5:28am » |
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on Jul 6th, 2009, 11:04pm, Ivan Pevnitsky wrote:ohh. If only I could read the codes!
But what fails in ABS module? motor, processor, solenoids... what?
PS: and what is boc |
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Sorry meen Box =) And that Black box fail...
I not know any who has motor or solenoid fails but soem who box stop works...
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #55 on: Jul 7th, 2009, 8:47am » |
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on Jul 6th, 2009, 11:15pm, wojtekor wrote:| the module itself... it's pretty much unfixable and you can only replace it. it's always worth to replace the abs pump with it... |
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This isn't correct, they may be fixable, I have fixed 8 with a C1095 code.
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You said earlier you saw a code C1095 & I answered that with a link to the repair:
on Jun 26th, 2009, 11:34am, Ivan Pevnitsky wrote:Today I was given the device Ultrascan Pro.
Is showed something strange - when i connected to ABS it showed me codes for a tenth of a second and then showed "No trouble codes". There was also an option "On-Demand test" that when being ran SOMETIMES showed me "C1095 Pump motor circuit failure", but in most cases - NO TROUBLE CODES DETECTED (just made diagnostics one after another)
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on Jun 27th, 2009, 12:25am, Tompion wrote:
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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wojtekor
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #56 on: Jul 7th, 2009, 10:50am » |
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on Jul 7th, 2009, 8:47am, Tompion wrote:
This isn't correct, they may be fixable, I have fixed 8 with a C1095 code.
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Tompion from what I know 97% of them is technically impossible to fix. From what I've found on the polish forum only 3% can be fixed but it can be tricky and the effects are uncertain. The thing is that there were 2 [or more?] abs modules used and only those used towards the end of the production are fixable...
As much as I don't like poles, I must admit that when it comes to finding cheap solutions for anything they are the best... And when they say that you can't salvage something that's probably the most true statement in the world 
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #57 on: Jul 7th, 2009, 12:29pm » |
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Of the 8 I've looked at with the C1095 code they all were fixed by soldering the pins.
100% success rate.
One of the modules I fixed was the earlier type (admittedly not tested this one – but the solder to the pins was broken) & I have seen reports of these being fixed by soldering the pins.
Can't speak for any other codes
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Ivan Pevnitsky
Full Member
Scorpio Ghia '96, 2.3, Auto
Posts: 172
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #58 on: Jul 7th, 2009, 12:42pm » |
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2Tompion:
Well, I I wouldn't trust so to results of UltraScan, beacuse the device is not for scorpio, and codes are shown and then diasappered. I'd like to test it with VE, but can't for this moment
2wojtekor:
What do you mean "unfixable". I didn't brake the ABS module but i'm sure there's no gum there, and all the board and elements are easy to access (I understand that it can be hard to fix processor with program, but other elements - can be replaced I think) I just don't won't to take the module off yet, because want be sure it's not the sensors
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pedropedro
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Posts: 677
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Re: ABS and traction control lights came on!
« Reply #59 on: Jul 7th, 2009, 6:12pm » |
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I dont see how one can say the abs unit is unfixable without stating specifically what was wrong to justify a replacement. I have repaired x3 sucessfully and I cant see that there is any justification in saying something just needs changing without finding out exactly why and what the fault is. I suspect that 97% of the failures relate to bad soldering internally on the pump connections discovered thanks to Tompion's resourcefullness
Unless you can do a scan, which I did showing exactly where the faults lay, it is with the utmost of respect, not worth guessing
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