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Topic: 2.9 12V wont start (Read 1236 times) |
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n880eua
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2.9 12V wont start
« on: Nov 29th, 2009, 11:25am » |
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I changed my inlet manifold over the other day and all the gasgets due to a thermostat bold snapping clean off.
Anyways got it all back together but the dam thing wont start.
I am sure I have the leads in the correct order but god knows why Ford used such a cheap system.
So the leads may still be in the wrong order but the car should still fire should it not but just run lumpy.
Well there is a good spark and as far as I can tell there is fuel in the system also.
So whats the next culprit on the 12V to give issues with non starting.
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n880eua
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #1 on: Nov 29th, 2009, 2:53pm » |
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Adjusted the dizzy so the arm is bang on the mark etc. I have double check by pressing the valve on the fuel rail that fuel is getting to it and it is.
It just seems that there is no spark. The car seems to backfire and out the exhaust is black smoke.
Now I know the coil is giving a spark as I have testedted it againt the plenum cover and a nice spark is present.
I took the plugs out and they looked black and maybe damp but not wet and they are brand new plugs also.
Really stuck now and knew I shouldnt have took the tast on.
All this because Ford used cheap and nasty fastners.
And people say Rovers are bad, at the min my 800 looks to be a god send in comparison.
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lesterlad aka Rodders
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2.3 Ghia x Estate (Manual)
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #2 on: Nov 29th, 2009, 3:26pm » |
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on Nov 29th, 2009, 2:53pm, n880eua wrote:| Adjusted the dizzy so the arm is bang on the mark etc. |
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Have you actually turned (rotated) the dizzy ?
The reason I ask is, on the MKIII 12v it was considered a big no no to move the dizzy from it's preset position, all sorts of problems arised if one was to do so and had to be reset by electronic means.
Just wondering if the scorp has the same dizzy set up as the MKIII.
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There's are methods to my madness!!! I'm not sure what the methods are but there's definitely madness in them
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n880eua
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #3 on: Nov 29th, 2009, 3:36pm » |
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Well yes I have. I had to take it out to get the inlet manifold off. The last bot was under it and it wouldnt come off without taking the cover off.
I have refitted it as per Fords instruction off the arm lined up with the mark etc.
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lesterlad aka Rodders
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2.3 Ghia x Estate (Manual)
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #4 on: Nov 29th, 2009, 3:48pm » |
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I think that's where you problem is going to be.
Putting the dizzy back in after removal can be a nightmare, you only have to be one tooth of the drive pinion to be out of sync and your foobard.
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Quote:| The last bot was under it and it wouldnt come off without taking the cover off. |
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I might be misundstanding you.
Have you removed just the "plastic" dizzy cover or the complete (metal) unit ?
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There's are methods to my madness!!! I'm not sure what the methods are but there's definitely madness in them
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tootman318
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Leicester City Forever
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #5 on: Nov 29th, 2009, 4:58pm » |
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if its backfiring like you say, then either leads on wrong, or dizzy few teeth out. darren
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Leicester City FC Forever!!!!!
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Dave2302
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2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #6 on: Nov 29th, 2009, 5:11pm » |
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Static timing and / or firing order 
And as for comparing a R*v*r to a Ford you bad boy 
anyone in the motor trade will tell you a Ford is a far better car
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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n880eua
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #7 on: Nov 29th, 2009, 5:16pm » |
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I had to take the whole thing out as with the cover off it still wouldn't give me enough space. Also the dizzy is a right pain to get in and will only go in with the marks lined up unless I'm missing something.
Is there any easy way of installing it back into the car
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gozz
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #8 on: Nov 29th, 2009, 7:56pm » |
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Before removing the distributor it's best to get the engine on number one TDC and mark the position of the rotor arm with a good marker on the edge of the distributor,this should be next to the right of the pair of leads nearest the bulkhead.Obviously as you remove the distributor the shaft will turn owing to the skew drive gear,make another mark against the new position of the rotor arm so that you know it is right for refitting.
Now the distributor shaft has a female splined hole in the bottom of it which drives the oil pump,the shaft of which is very tricky to locate since it moves sideways in the hole.I put thick grease round it with a suitable tool and centralise it before fitting the distributor,if you are half a spline out the distributor wont go in so you need to turn the shaft a fraction and try again making sure it's still central,there is a lead in chamfer on the spindle and the distributor so it only needs to be nearly central.
I know they are not very easy,but if you follow the foregoing,at least you will be timed up,but do make sure number one is on the firing stroke and not the exhaust stroke,you can check this by putting your finger over the plug hole,when you feel the pressure as the engine is turned put a rod onto the piston until it reaches the top,the TDC mark will verify the top if you can find it on the front pulley,but don't forget that the mark comes round on every stroke.
GOZZ.
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n880eua
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #9 on: Nov 29th, 2009, 8:54pm » |
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I will try that tommrow. Is there any sure fire way to check fuel is getting into the cylinders first aswell.
I will have another go at the dizzy but I am sure it will only go in when it wants to and it seems to be when the marks line up.
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Dave2302
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2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #10 on: Nov 29th, 2009, 9:04pm » |
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If its backfiring its getting fuel, your problem is definitely incorrect ignition timing or firing order.
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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n880eua
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #11 on: Nov 29th, 2009, 9:12pm » |
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Ok, many thanks. I am going to check that tommrow. I did another post for the leads so think I have done that right.
Shame nobody doesn't have a picture of the cap and leads and could mark them on the picture for me to be 100% sure
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Highlander
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Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #12 on: Nov 29th, 2009, 10:10pm » |
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Its always a good idea to take pictures BEFORE you dismantle anything.
Mobile phones are ideal
I learned that the hard way too 
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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n880eua
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #13 on: Nov 30th, 2009, 11:53am » |
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Car off to scrap yard this week. Put a thick rod into cylinder one and turned it over by hand. Wrench slipped and half the rod was missing. The other half shot out.
Eitherway turned it over by hand and its stuck fast now. Dont have the confidence to work on the engine anymore so its going to be scrapped instead.
Such a waste for a mint car.
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steve_500uk
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1995 N Reg Scorpio Ultima
Posts: 52
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #14 on: Nov 30th, 2009, 2:21pm » |
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don't scrap it, can't anything be done
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n880eua
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #15 on: Nov 30th, 2009, 2:33pm » |
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I suppose it could be fixed but its a time and tool thing.
Its just been re-MOT'ed for 12 months. I have always owned Rovers and apart from the odd head gasket hear and there no problem.
But this car really was not thought out at all. Everything is so complex and tricky its a joke.
The only two things are a new lump or rebuild the exsisting one.
Eitherway I dont feel I can do any so N880 EUA will be going to the scrappy in the sky.
Plus side has plenty of new bits to keep other Scorpios on the road.
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gozz
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #16 on: Nov 30th, 2009, 5:10pm » |
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on Nov 30th, 2009, 11:53am, n880eua wrote:Car off to scrap yard this week. Put a thick rod into cylinder one and turned it over by hand. Wrench slipped and half the rod was missing. The other half shot out.
Eitherway turned it over by hand and its stuck fast now. Dont have the confidence to work on the engine anymore so its going to be scrapped instead.
Such a waste for a mint car. |
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When I suggested a "rod" I meant something like a piece of 1/8" welding rod !! not something that could snap off or jam.For goodness' sake don't scrap it for so small a problem.Personally in the past when irritated by such happenings,I put the vehicle to one side until a better frame of mind ensues,then approach it with renewed enthusiasm 
GOZZ.
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Dave2302
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2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: 2.9 12V wont start
« Reply #17 on: Nov 30th, 2009, 7:09pm » |
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See my post in "What Engines Can I Get"
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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