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Topic: Brake judder (Read 1861 times) |
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Robin.M
Junior Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
 
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Brake judder
« on: Jun 2nd, 2010, 8:30pm » |
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Hi all
I have the opportunity to by a 2.5 Diesel Scorpio, but it has very bad judder/vibration on braking - steering wheel shakes - more pronounced at final braking effort. Removed both front wheels and both discs are very worn. Cannot see anything else. Any thoughts? ABS light is also on
Geraint
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Matt
Senior Member
Manual'd and a 4.0 in the making
Posts: 2816
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #1 on: Jun 2nd, 2010, 8:39pm » |
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give the lower arm bushes a good feel, also the trackrods
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FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham
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faffi
Full Member
Two-wheeled cornering
Posts: 109
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #2 on: Jun 3rd, 2010, 7:43am » |
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Warped or unevenly worn discs is a known issue, though - I typically got vibrations every 6000 miles or so. A stupid design that requires that you glue the discs to the hub, otherwise dirt and rust will find its way between the hub and disc, distorting it as you tighten the wheel nuts.
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Robin.M
Junior Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 56
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #3 on: Jun 6th, 2010, 4:00pm » |
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New discs & pads + extra clean with wire brush = judder gone
Thanks for the replies
Geraint
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faffi
Full Member
Two-wheeled cornering
Posts: 109
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #4 on: Jun 6th, 2010, 8:33pm » |
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Been there, done that. If you didn't glue them in places, chances are you will warp the discs next time you change wheels - the discs will not stay in place and when they slide out a bit, dirt will find its place between the disc and the flange. Unless you want to take it off and clean everything every time a wheel come off, the discs needs to be glued in place.
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Matt
Senior Member
Manual'd and a 4.0 in the making
Posts: 2816
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #5 on: Jun 6th, 2010, 8:49pm » |
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never heard of the disc needing gluing, they warp due to the heat and pressure the Scorpio subjects them to, hence its always recommended on them to fit a better quality disc. A smear of copper grease maybe but not glue, most cars that run the McPherson front strut are the same setup, so its not a scorpio only problem, also ive never heard of any dealer recommending you to glue the discs on, but you should refit the spring retaining clip over one of the studs but no one does lol
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FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham
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faffi
Full Member
Two-wheeled cornering
Posts: 109
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #6 on: Jun 6th, 2010, 10:09pm » |
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The shops around here consider it mandatory to glue them on, saying that failing this will almost guarantee the discs to warp again. Don't recall the name of the stuff, but it came in a brown tube and the stuff was brownish as well. Very strong, they use heat and a sledge hammer to remove them when the discs needs replacing.
Not knowing this and buying cheap non-standard discs that would warp quickly, it got far better when I got a glob of glue from a mechanic.
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gozz
Senior Member
Been around awhile
Posts: 3475
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #7 on: Jun 6th, 2010, 10:52pm » |
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Blimey what a palaver ! I've been doing it wrong for forty years 
GOZZ.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #8 on: Jun 7th, 2010, 1:43am » |
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Glue ?..... 
The torque of the wheel nuts on the wheel hold the discs flush & in place....never heard of glueing the discs on 
Sometimes it's necessary to use a big hammer to get the discs off, but only because they've been on there for a long while & rusted on. 
Faffi, if it came in a brown tube & it was brownish, then it's most likely copper grease 
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faffi
Full Member
Two-wheeled cornering
Posts: 109
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #9 on: Jun 7th, 2010, 6:54am » |
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Nope, that was what I had used up until then Deffo glue, no doubt about it.
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Robin.M
Junior Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 56
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #10 on: Jun 7th, 2010, 10:13am » |
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On my other 2.5 diesel, one of the front discs refuses to come of - It looks like I will have to grind down through the disc flange and try and split it with a wedge - ayone done this before
Geriant
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #11 on: Jun 7th, 2010, 4:00pm » |
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What about a 3-legged puller?
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Mike H
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Highlander
Moderator
Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #12 on: Jun 7th, 2010, 4:03pm » |
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Big hammer always works for me 
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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Highlander
Moderator
Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #13 on: Jun 7th, 2010, 4:04pm » |
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on Jun 6th, 2010, 10:09pm, faffi wrote:The shops around here consider it mandatory to glue them on, saying that failing this will almost guarantee the discs to warp again. Don't recall the name of the stuff, but it came in a brown tube and the stuff was brownish as well. Very strong, they use heat and a sledge hammer to remove them when the discs needs replacing.
Not knowing this and buying cheap non-standard discs that would warp quickly, it got far better when I got a glob of glue from a mechanic. |
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Is someone on the wind up?? 
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Tekno
Full Member
Tenho Ruohoranta
Posts: 599
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #14 on: Jun 7th, 2010, 4:08pm » |
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glueing 
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1998 Ford Scorpio Ultima Estate 2.3i 16V
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Highlander
Moderator
Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #15 on: Jun 7th, 2010, 4:11pm » |
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I might try that glue stuff next time I'm replacing the cable ties that hold my calipers on!
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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heliphil58
Junior Member
Scorpio 2.3 saloon 97
Posts: 68
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #16 on: Jun 7th, 2010, 4:16pm » |
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I worked on fords in a dealership for years and never glued on a disc where abouts are you Faffi
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a900one
Full Member
A scorpio is for life not just for christmas
Posts: 980
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #17 on: Jun 7th, 2010, 6:11pm » |
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I have had to cut down through the disc and split with a chisel before. I have never glued a disc on, and try not to use a big hamer to get them off, possible damage to wheel bearing. As I dont use it very often I have had a buildup of rust on the outside edge of the disc which has caused brake judder, just cleaned the fronts on saturday to get rid of judder.
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faffi
Full Member
Two-wheeled cornering
Posts: 109
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #18 on: Jun 7th, 2010, 7:52pm » |
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on Jun 7th, 2010, 4:16pm, heliphil58 wrote:| I worked on fords in a dealership for years and never glued on a disc where abouts are you Faffi |
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Norway. I asked the head mechanic today when I was in to buy some fuel cleaner for my Mondeo - because of this discussion - about why they glued the front discs on. And he confirmed it was to prevent them from slipping off a little when the wheels were off, something that easily made dirt enter. THis again warped the discs.
And if you think glue cannot be strong enough to make a difference, consider that the wings on you typical Boing etc. airplane is basically held in place with glue
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a900one
Full Member
A scorpio is for life not just for christmas
Posts: 980
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Re: Brake judder
« Reply #19 on: Jun 7th, 2010, 9:58pm » |
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I dont think most people take there wheels off that often, after a while they stick to the hub with rust etc and dont move that easily. As GOZZ has said that he has not used glue in 40+ years neither have I in 40 + years. Mind you in the past discs would last 4-5 sets of pads, now you are lucky if can make them last 2 sets.
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